[Myrmidon73]

Hi everyone. This is my first post on the forums.

Firstoff, let me talk about myself. I'm 17, and just started playing in mid-April. I play the SAYC, and once I get a good feel for the game, I want to learn some other systems. Tonight, my dad and I played a duplicate beginners' (<500 ACBL points, non-life master) game, and this hand came up.

S: T 6 4
H: A K Q 8
D: K Q 6 2
C: K 5

I was in the 4th seat, and after 2 passes, my RHO opened 2C. I asked his partner if that was a strong bid. She said it was. I passed, she bid 2D, he bid 2S, she bid 3C, and he jumped to 4S.

With a 17 point hand of my own, I thought my partner and LHO combined for maybe 1-2 points, so all my kings were onside, and there was probably a long club suit from LHO (which would fit both the bidding and my hand). So, I doubled. I lead the Kh, and to my surprise/dismay, LHO had both the minor aces, and RHO was void in hearts. The opposition ended up making 5S, and after all the cards were played, my RHO said that he only had 12 points.

Granted, the distribution was very favorable for the opponents, but should my RHO have said anything after I specifically asked his partner what his 2C bid meant (even though his hand was not very strong)? I think it confused me as to how to play the hand. Something just doesn't seem right. To me, it looks like you can deceive your opponents by giving them false information on any particular bid you make.

Any thoughts on this? And thank you for the replies.

[pclayton]

Hi welcome to the game and the forums. Many of us started as teenagers (me - 30 years ago), so its nice to see youngsters taking the initiative.

So, RHO held roughly a 14 count and opened 2♣? Strange indeed. Would you mind posting the entire hand?

We've had many a discussion about the legality / disclosure requirements of opening hands with long suits, but far shy of a normal 2♣ high card points or honors.

Just as strange as the 2♣ opener, I can't imagine a hand with two aces not making a slam try after partner opens 2♣.

[Free]

Welcome to the forums!

I agree with Phil on this one: RHO used 2♣ for a wrong reason, and LHO knew more than he told you imo.

Why don't people just say it can be a distributional hand with less strength if they play such crappy bridge?

[Fluffy]

This might look unfair, but beginners tournaments have relaxed rules.

Their hand evaluation is way different from standard, that's not their fault, more like their teacher's.

You will find yourself breaking the rules many times before you come familiar to them, and from your point of view adjusting a score will be wrong all of them.

[Myrmidon73]

OK, thanks for all the responses.

I dont have a deal of the entire hand. I know the dummy was 2-4-3-4 distributionally, with only the minor aces as honors.

My RHO had a 6-5-2 split, with a void in hearts, 6 spades, 5 clubs and 2 diamonds, with AKQ in spades, Q of clubs, and J in diamonds. I think he ended up losing 1 trick in diamonds and 1 in clubs, but the exact details of the hand are a little sketchy.

[foo]

Myrmidon73, on Jun 8 2007, 05:36 PM, said:

OK, thanks for all the responses.

I dont have a deal of the entire hand. I know the dummy was 2-4-3-4 distributionally, with only the minor aces as honors.

My RHO had a 6-5-2 split, with a void in hearts, 6 spades, 5 clubs and 2 diamonds, with AKQ in spades, Q of clubs, and J in diamonds. I think he ended up losing 1 trick in diamonds and 1 in clubs, but the exact details of the hand are a little sketchy.

So Responder was something like xx.xxxx.Axx.Axxx?
and Opener was something like AKQxxx..Jx.Qxxxx?

And you had T64.AKQ8.KQ62.K5

Opener made at least 2 mistakes according to classic Bridge "lore"
1= Opener's hand is not even close to a standard 2C Opening
2= Most experts will tell you that two suited hands are hands that you bend over backwards to avoid opening 2C.

In the long run, if they keep bidding like this, they are
a= going to get lot's of bad scores.
b= going to get a lot of administrative "attention" due to their unusual bidding habits.
(at the least, they are going to start getting forced to inform opponents that their bids do not show what is usually expected.)


Welcome to Bridge! Your attention to detail and questions are indications that you are going to be good player and enjoy yourself a great deal.

[H_KARLUK]

http://worldbridge.o.../onlinelaws.pdf

[blackshoe]

Opener clearly misbid. Responder equally clearly misbid. What the Hell, they're beginners, they don't know any better.

After a couple of similar disasters misdefending against a strong 2 ♣ opening, I always ask for an explanation of the auction. I don't however, (at least, not if I can help it) ask leading questions. "Is it strong?" "Is it weak?" "Is that Blackwood/Stayman/the Rumanian Two Way Diamond Opening?" will almost always illicit a simple "yes", even when there is more that should be said. When folks alert (in f2f, where there are no explanations unless you ask) I say "Please explain". If there have been no alerts, I ask "Please explain your auction". This accords with both the alert regulation (in the ACBL, anyway) and Law 20, which deals with questions and explanations. You might, if you don't think you got full disclosure, ask a supplementary question, like "what would be some minimum 2 ♣ openers in your system?" Beginners, however, are unlikely to be able to coherently answer that question.

An experienced pair where the opener is known by his partner to have this kind of hand (because he's done it before, whatever their formal agreement) should disclose the possibility. If they don't you have been misinformed and may be entitled to redress.

In this case, however, you're unlikely to get a full explanation - most beginners just don't know any better - and the explanation is not real likely to describe the hand, for the same reason. What the heck, it's one board, it's matchpoints. Don't worry about it.