[Mcauley]

Playing with a first time partner, bidding goes 1♣(2+)-1♥(promises 5+♥)-2NT-3♠-5NT..
What would 5NT mean here? any distribution ideas? which high cards he might hold?How would you respond with AKxx-KQJ10x-Qx-xx?
(Final contract was 7NT-1 with the ♣A lead)

[the hog]

This is impossible to answer as you appear to be playing a very non-standard system. (eg 1H showing 5+ ??). What does 2NT mean?
I have no idea what 5NT means here as it is illogical for opener to make such a bid after limiting his hand with 2NT.
The only suggestion I can make is that I don't think you should be playing this stuff with a first time pd.

[han]

Agree with Ron.

[Fluffy]

Picturing a hand for 5NT is not so easy.

I'd say: void - Ax - AKJ - KQJ10xxxx

[the hog]

Fluffy, on May 25 2007, 02:47 PM, said:

Picturing a hand for 5NT is not so easy.

I'd say: void - Ax - AKJ - KQJ10xxxx

He can't have that because his initial rebid was 2NT.

[Flame]

Part of being a good bidder is avoiding any bid that partner might not understand so 5NT is just a mistake no matter what partner has unless you agreed what it means.

[han]

This is in a whole different league from making a bid that you might not understand. Partner just doesn't have a clue.

[helene_t]

Must be a grand slam try, clasically asking for trump quality. Not sure what suit is trump. Probably either hearts or spades.

You must have a special agreement about the meaning of 3♠ since normally this does not show slam interest so opener can't bid beyond game level. Maybe 3♠ was a cue since a 4-5 hand would have used checkback? If you don't have such an agreement my guess is that opener has an enourmous heart raise and made up 2NT just to do something forcing. In that case my bid would be 7♥.

More realistically, 5N was a misclick and it doesn't really matter what you bid since you can't get back to 3N anyway. As a matter of principle, though, I'll pretend to trust partner.

[Fluffy]

The_Hog, on May 25 2007, 08:10 AM, said:

Fluffy, on May 25 2007, 02:47 PM, said:

Picturing a hand for 5NT is not so easy.

I'd say: void - Ax - AKJ - KQJ10xxxx

He can't have that because his initial rebid was 2NT.

5NT is not consistent with 2NT, so whatever the hand you can say either

He can't have that because he had bid 2NT, or
He can't have that because he had bid 5NT

I just painted the hand that made the more (not a ton of ) sense.

I jsut take this as a game, everyone tries one, then we see who was closer hehe.

[mhais]

aces r confirmed pd pl show the kings?

[SoTired]

5N is simple = "Pick a slam" Opener likely has 3♠ and 2♥ and can't decide between 6H, 6S and 6N and so asks responder to pick one. Opener has re-evaluated opener's hand based on the previous bidding, likely with a solid running minor.

Bidding 7N was foolish.

[inquiry]

1♣(2+)-1♥(promises 5+♥)
2NT-3♠
5NT..

I just want to understand. The above was the auction? Not sure what this is where 1♥ promises five, but ok. I assume 2NT showed something like 18-19 HCP and balanced. Responder had 15 hcp and balanced. Simple math, 19+15 = 34, slam in 6NT is typically thought of as 33, grand slam at least 37 under the balanced opposite the balanced. So I have no idea how you ended up in seven. While "tradition" says that 5NT might be grand invite, "logic" says the limit is six.

I will assume that 3♠ showed slam interest and a second suit. So I my guess is that opener agreed to accept the slam invite and show a maximum hand, and to offer a choice of contracts to responders. Probably between 6♣, 6♠, and 6NT (we know he already knows we have five hearts). Otherwise the 5NT leap makes no sense. Since you said you were off the club ACE, I suspect partners hand is something close to....

QJxx Ax AK KQTxx

[whereagles]

My attitude here would be: "I dunno what the heck pard wants, but I'm gonna bid 6NT and let HIM sort this mess out while I go have a beer."

[ArcLight]

whereagles, on May 25 2007, 08:46 AM, said:

My attitude here would be: "I dunno what the heck pard wants, but I'm gonna bid 6NT and let HIM sort this mess out while I go have a beer."

Thats the beauty of pick up pards who make crazy bids. Sometimes THEY get to play in their own mess.

5NT is either:

- Pick a slam
- Grand Slam Force
- Quantitative for Grand Slam


The beauty of 6NT or 7NT is they can have the fun.
6 Spades could work too, though you get to play it. Or maybe pard will convert to 6NT. I'd have bid 6♠.


2NT is probably 18-19 HCP.

[gwnn]

The only safe bid where you can be sure partner plays the hand is 7NT.

Surely from the principle of fast arrival it needs to be bid now, to show the weaker hand.

On a more serious note, .... I don't know. Weird system.

[inquiry]

ArcLight, on May 25 2007, 09:45 AM, said:

whereagles, on May 25 2007, 08:46 AM, said:

My attitude here would be: "I dunno what the heck pard wants, but I'm gonna bid 6NT and let HIM sort this mess out while I go have a beer."

Thats the beauty of pick up pards who make crazy bids. Sometimes THEY get to play in their own mess.

5NT is either:

- Pick a slam
- Grand Slam Force
- Quantitative for Grand Slam


The beauty of 6NT or 7NT is they can have the fun.
6 Spades could work too, though you get to play it. Or maybe pard will convert to 6NT. I'd have bid 6♠.


2NT is probably 18-19 HCP.

Logically, 5NT can not be "invite to 7NT" or "grand slam force". The 2NT bidder has limited his hand by point count and by distribution. He is not the captain, and he can issue such statements/request.

The only possible meaning of 5NT is...

a -- Opener took 3♠ as a slam try showing a good hand
b -- Opener looking at his control rich hand, decides to accept the slam try
c -- Opener bids 5NT as a "pick a slam". I assume the choices are between the black suits and 6NT.

The only way 5NT makes sense if it is an ACCEPTANCE of responders 3♠ slam try, without clear decision as to which slam to play. Point fingers at the 5NT bid all you want, but bidding 7NT as responder is clearly wrong, and if opener carried on to 7NT after responder picked a playing spot, well, then we can make fun of him.

[david_c]

Agree completely with Ben. Opener must think 3♠ shows slam interest and is bidding 5NT to offer a choice of slams.

[SoTired]

SoTired, on May 25 2007, 07:07 AM, said:

5N is simple = "Pick a slam" <snip>

Quote

Agree completely with Ben.

Ho Hum..... ignored again

[Mcauley]

Totally agree with system's weirdness. I recieved the notes 2days before the game.I took 5NT as pick a slam. Responded with 6♥,and at that point trouble appeared, p bid 6NT. I lost it and bid 7NT(probably my fault , not sure tho)

[SoTired]

ok now we know the whole auction....

5N was probably a poor bid, but in this context, it should be "pick a slam". (maybe opener meant it to be invitational to 6N??? I don't know)

So 6H was the wrong slam maybe because opener was not sure if responder had real spades or not and wanted the choice between spades and NT. Whatever....

7N was punishing partner for confusing you.

So 5N may or may not be a poor bid, but 7N was childish