[bid_em_up]

You know, some people seem to enjoy attempting to pick something apart when there is no reason to do so.

It IS a bare minimum in terms of HCP. It has 12. Thats fairly minimum in terms of HCP, no matter how you attempt to slice it. That comes nowhere close to the 17 or so that the reverse originally implied. Sorry that I did not explicity spell this out.

It is not a bare minimum in terms of playing strength. And although I said, "it is a bare minimum", in context, it is implied that I am referring to HCP, not playing strength.

"Cancels the reverse" means it is no longer guaranteed to be the 17 hcp hand, and is more distributional/playing strength oriented. I do believe I said that already also.

Geez.

[the hog]

"Cancels the reverse?" I never heard of that either and suspect this is a home grown notion.
Fwiw I would open 1H and rebid 2D.

[jdonn]

Tell me where I am misquoting (mis-paraphrasing). You said rebidding the second suit cancels the reverse in terms of high card points. I took that to be a claim that if you have this shape then as long as you can open the bidding you can reverse, since the HCP requirements for a reverse don't apply. It STILL looks to me like that's what you meant, and it came across that way. Anyway so be it, we certainly are both aware that the original problem hand is good enough to reverse after opening 1♦.

[bid_em_up]

jdonn, on May 24 2007, 05:45 PM, said:

Tell me where I am misquoting (mis-paraphrasing). You said rebidding the second suit cancels the reverse in terms of high card points.

Well, when you are 5-6, surely you are not saying that by rebidding 2H and then 3H, you still must have the 17 the 2H bid originally implied, are you? Of course not. The rebid of 3H cancels the reverse in terms of HCP requirements, partner should no longer be expecting this. He should be execting good playing strength and 5/6+ distribution instead, but the hand can be minimum in terms of HCP. Agreed?

Quote

I took that to be a claim that if you have this shape then as long as you can open the bidding you can reverse, since the HCP requirements for a reverse don't apply.

Show me where I said that. You inferred it. All I ever said in the original post was that it cancels the reverse and shows 5/6. You assumed that I meant it was any 5/6.

Quote

It STILL looks to me like that's what you meant, and it came across that way.

Sorry, I was at work when posting. I will try to be more specific next time.

Quote

Anyway so be it, we certainly are both aware that the original problem hand is good enough to reverse after opening 1♦.

If you say so, I've forgotten what it was now.

[pbleighton]

Quote

There once was a time, where the reverse always showed the extra hcp. From what I have both seen and been told by others, this is no longer the de facto expert standard. While it may not be "your" style, there is absolutely nothing to disagree with. It just isn't the way you play it.

More and more players, have migrated to the view of distribution is more important than hcp, and this is the trade-off of being able to show distribitution at lower levels that had you opened it 1H then had to rebid diamonds. At a minimum, you will be at 4D before you have shown the 6th diamond (if you ever get to show it).

You misunderstand completely, I would reverse with this hand. However, once I have done this, I can't "cancel the reverse". The rebid of hearts doesn't imply less than reversing strength. Opener may have 13, or 21.

Peter

[kenrexford]

I'm old school here, I suppose. Not sure if I am actually old-school, middle-school, new-school, or a drop-out.

Anyway, I'd open 1♥ and then rebid diamonds.

Change the suits to either minor and spades, and I would open the minor. That gives the dual advantage of a reasonable chance of a 1♠ bid at my second opportunity and less concern that four of the other major (4♥) will be the call to my right immediately before my second call (4♠ is OK).

In contrast, 1♦...2♥...3♥ is a difficult auction that may never even occur. Specifically diamonds and hearts is terribly difficult (at least 1♣-P-1♦-P-1♥ is possible when I have a club-heart 6-5). Worse yet is when 4♠ is the last bid to my right when I am about to make my second call. I really do not like bidding 4NT and then converting 5♣ to 5♦ to infer 6-5.

The spade void makes this even worse. I mean, Kx-5-6-void would be better. void-5-6-Kx is the absolute worst conceivable 5-6 pattern I can have. The vulnerability is the second-worst also (at least we are not red-on-white, where 4♠ might be bid successfully on a seven-card fit, LOL).

I'm a bit surprised that some very good bidders here are willing to risk all kinds of predictable interference, and the resulting difficulties, to facilitate an ability to show assuredly a sixth diamond when an ideal auction occurs.

[Fluffy]

The_Hog, on May 24 2007, 10:40 PM, said:

"Cancels the reverse?" I never heard of that either and suspect this is a home grown notion.
Fwiw I would open 1H and rebid 2D.

Thaks Ron, I though I would be left only with Ken here , this is a clear 1♥ opening for me.

I would rebid 2♦, and next I might pass 2♠ or bid 3♦ over 2♥

[whereagles]

I like this idea of "This bid cancels all previous bids and is natural."

[han]

kenrexford, on May 25 2007, 06:04 AM, said:

Not sure if I am actually old-school, middle-school, new-school, or a drop-out.