[drmartin]

1. what is 2S 3D 4S 4nt ? What is 4NT ?
2. 3D dbl 4D 4nt ? What is 4NT ?
Best regards,
Drazen

[luis]

drmartin, on Jan 13 2004, 02:18 PM, said:

1. what is 2S 3D 4S 4nt ? What is 4NT ?
2. 3D dbl 4D 4nt ? What is 4NT ?
Best regards,
Drazen

1. I think it should be RKCB in diamonds.
2. To play

Luis

[inquiry]

Assumptions, everyone bidding, so the first auction is....

(3S)-4D-(4S)-4NT, and the second is (3D)-Dbl-(4D)-4NT

The meaning of these auctions will depend a lot upon parntership style and the meaning of DBL of 4D or 4S. Is dbl for penatly, in which case 4NT is unlikely to be to play on either auction (some excpetions for vulnerability and type of game I guess). I almost always play that until a fit has been found, double is for takeout. However in some partnerships, I play that a free bid of 4 level establish a fit for all practical purposes. So while in the second auction, I play dbl of 4D as "responsive" despite the level, in the first auction I play dbl of 4S as either takeout or optional double, depending upon the partnership.

The reason why this is important, if DBL is takeout, then 4NT can not be pick a suit (as it might be on the first auction, and clearly 4NT can not be pick a suit on the first auction (since bypasses both majors), and if DBL is penalty, 4NT to play doesn't make much sense, just double them with that hand.

Here is how I play the various possible hands (takeout other suits, desire to penaltoze them. and slam try).

Case 1.
DBL = takeout (with some partners this is optional)
Pass = hope partner dbls so I can pass, penalty or bid 4NT to play (vul vs nv)
4NT = RKCB for diamonds

Case 2.
DBL = responsive takeout
Pass = hope partner can double again and I can pass for penalty if I ahve that hand, or I can rebid 4NT natural but not encouraging.
4NT = natural and encouraging

[luis]

We are in sync in this one Ben :-)

My last natural 4NT was:

3s - dbl - p - 3N
p - p - 4s - 4N

And now pd who passed 3N happily decided to tell me how many aces he held.
Grrrrr.......

Does this always happen to me or you have experienced similar disasters ?

[inquiry]

We are so seldom in sink... so this at least is good for a change.

As far as your given auction, taking 4NT at "blackwood" is an odd choice. However, I will say this, I posted here that when you play in an individual if you bid 4NT your PARTNER will take it as blackwood. Others disagree but my experience has been this is nearly a true-ism. Your auction sounds very much like something from an individual. I had a very similar auction once in such an event (F2F) before I realized the truth of my blackwood statement. Likewise... you run the risk of auctions like..

1C-1H
2C-2N (not forcing)
3C-3D
4C <<---- having your partner tell you how many ACES they have (haven't you ever heard of GERBER???? they will ask).

We really have to remeber we were all taught differently, and what we think might be a wacky interpretation of a bid might well be standard meaning elsewhere.... I mean Mr. Mxyzptlk must play bridge, not to mention the population on Bizzaro world where if memory serves me right exist a society ruled by the Bizarro Code, which states that it is a crime to do anything well or to make anything perfect or beautiful... explaining such bids.

Ben

[Gerben47]

1. what is (2S) 3D (4S) 4nt ? What is 4NT ?

RKC for diamonds

2. (3D) dbl (4D) 4nt ? What is 4NT ?

Natural

Wow, agreement!
Although... Double of 4S would be penalty. Partner made a limited overcall. Either I decide

a) we can make something this high: bid
they can make something this high: pass
c) no one can make something this high: double

Double in (2) would be responsive, though.

I have also had the problem of partners who shut down their brain and count their aces whenever they see 4C/4NT. Why do people do that? It has nothing to do with being taught in some way, it's bidding like a drunk who forgot the previous auction.

[Trpltrbl]

inquiry, on Jan 13 2004, 10:35 AM, said:

Assumptions, everyone bidding, so the first auction is....

(3S)-4D-(4S)-4NT, and the second is (3D)-Dbl-(4D)-4NT

The meaning of these auctions will depend a lot upon parntership style and the meaning of DBL of 4D or 4S.

Case 1.
DBL = takeout (with some partners this is optional)
Pass = hope partner dbls so I can pass, penalty or bid 4NT to play (vul vs nv)
4NT = RKCB for diamonds

Case 2.
DBL = responsive takeout
Pass = hope partner can double again and I can pass for penalty if I have that hand, or I can rebid 4NT natural but not encouraging.
4NT = natural and encouraging

I agree, as long as the X have been discussed in that situation. Does it show other 2 suits and some support for pd's overcalled suit ? I think it does.

Mike

[bearmum]

drmartin, on Jan 14 2004, 03:18 AM, said:

1. what is 2S 3D 4S 4nt ? What is 4NT ?
2. 3D dbl 4D 4nt ? What is 4NT ?
Best regards,
Drazen

seeing as I had NO hands I cannot POSSIBLY reply

[inquiry]

bearmum, on Jan 14 2004, 10:54 AM, said:

drmartin, on Jan 14 2004, 03:18 AM, said:

1. what is 2S 3D 4S 4nt ? What is 4NT ?
2. 3D dbl 4D 4nt ? What is 4NT ?
Best regards,
Drazen

seeing as I had NO hands I cannot POSSIBLY reply

I don't understand why seeing the hand is necessary to determine the meaning of the bid. However, to give you a chance to show what you have in mind, let's assume the you hold the following four hands and hear (2S)-3D-(4S)-? on which would (if any) you bid 4NT....

!) S-AQ H-QT97 D-K32 C-AJ4
2) S-3 H-AKQT52 D-QJx C-Kxx
3) S-x H-KJ98xx D-void C-AQJxxx
4) S-KT98 H-Axx D-xxx C-KQT

If none of these are suitable for 4NT, make whatever reasonable change you would like in them to make them suitable for 4NT bid.

Ben

[luke warm]

bearmum, on Jan 14 2004, 05:54 PM, said:

drmartin, on Jan 14 2004, 03:18 AM, said:

1. what is 2S 3D 4S 4nt ? What is 4NT ?
2. 3D dbl 4D 4nt ? What is 4NT ?
Best regards,
Drazen

seeing as I had NO hands I cannot POSSIBLY reply

pretend it's your partner who bid the 4nt.. the bidding goes:

(3D) DBL (4D) 4NT

you x'd, he bid 4nt.. what's he saying? if he's bidding 4NT for any reason but to play, he got just a little too scientific for me.. i probably pass that

this one seems a little different:

(2S) 3D (4S) 4NT

that seems like rkc for diamonds to me

[mr1303]

Ah yes, the good old overuse of Blackwood.

Here was one I had today

1S 2H(not game forcing, but at least encouraging
3C(definitely game forcing, shows a hand that would have jump rebid) 3S (4th suit, not sure where we're going)
3NT (predictable) 4NT (showing extra values, definitely not Blackwood)
5S (This looks like a 3 aces response) 6NT (Might as well, we're not missing any aces)

Partner explained to me that he thought 4NT was RKCB for the previous suit bid, clubs. Despite being off an ace, 6NT came in with a lot of jam.

By the way, 2nd one definitely to play, 1st one RKCB if not agreed, but could well be natural.

[Azzkikr]

Well first off Vul has some say in these auctions.
1) in the first Case Ace ask or Keycard in Diamonds.
2) in this Auction to me this comes accross as a T/O bid possible a two suiter. This shouldnt be natural. you have penalty options here an dyou dont know if you are going plus or not playing in 4NT.