[cherdano]

Adam I think your construction still shows that bidding is against the odds. If partner has 3 hearts, then you need a minor suit ace and a 2-2 break, clearly against the IMPs odds. Even the 2-2 break alone is slightly against the non-vulnerable IMP odds. (Also, you could get doubled on a 3-1 trump break.)
So you only gain when partner has ♥Hxx and a minor suit ace. That's a very unlikely target. (I am sure a simulation would show that partner is quite unlikely to have 3 hearts here.)

[jillybean]

Here's the full hand

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     2♦    Pass  2♠
 Pass  3♦    Pass  3♥
 Pass  3NT   Pass  4♥
 Pass  Pass  Pass  

[the hog]

I would have passed. Ok, so 4H happens to make here, but
1) Nth is max for the 2D opening, and some would open 1D
2) The D hook works
3) H are 2-2

[han]

The diamond hook is irrelevant, agree with the rest of Ron's comments. I would not be comfortable opening 2D with the north hand when white vs red.

[awm]

Partner will certainly raise with Kx or Ax. Maybe with Qx too. But the raise is often to 3♥ and not 4♥. If partner has a maximum with three hearts then I'm very likely to get a high heart honor (even Qxx will help the odds) and the diamond ace.

If partner has some hand like:

xx
Ax
KJxxxx
xxx

then sure, I will play 3♥. But 3♥ is not much worse than 2♦ on this hand.

If partner has something like:

x
QJx
AJxxxx
xxx

then 2♥ gets me to game.

Basically bidding 2♥ will: (1) get me to 4♥ when it's good (2) fairly often get me to play 3♥ instead of 2♦, which is probably win 2 more often than it's a minus position by far (3) fairly often get me to play 3♦ instead of 2♦ for a possible loss, but with a very good chance opponents make an inferior lead that could well cause me to break even.

It seems okay to me.

[Gerben42]

Quote

♠ 8 
♥ QT8 
♦ AJ9854 
♣ K43 

Partner has a supermax weak two with great support and the ACE of ♦ and trumps break 2 - 2 for just making. Congratulations. 90% of the time you are just handing out free IMPs. Still Pass. 2nd alternative Pass. 3rd alternative PASS.

[Halo]

I still prefer 2♥ to 2♠, but bidding spades planning a heart rebid is OK. I would never pass 2♦.

[skjaeran]

I don't play wk2♦ NV, but do vul. Then it's very constructive. But I'd still pass with this hand.

[jdonn]

awm, on May 23 2007, 12:58 AM, said:

Partner will certainly raise with Kx or Ax. Maybe with Qx too. But the raise is often to 3♥ and not 4♥. If partner has a maximum with three hearts then I'm very likely to get a high heart honor (even Qxx will help the odds) and the diamond ace.

If partner has some hand like:

xx
Ax
KJxxxx
xxx

then sure, I will play 3♥. But 3♥ is not much worse than 2♦ on this hand.

I don't think this example is totally fair. As compared to that hand, something like xx Kx KJTxxx xxx is potentially a trick worse in hearts, definitely a trick better in diamonds, and a much more clear preempt.

I do admit that if we were to bid, I much prefer hearts to spades. But I still find it wacky.

[mikeh]

I have seen the suggestion that partner's raise of 2H to 3H could be passed. I have never played that, and, frankly, don't think it makes a lot of sense.

While the 2D bid is a preempt, responder is unlimited and to require that opener jump to 4H to show extras (and a semi-blanced hand) consumes valuable bidding space.

And I would have thought that, most of the time, a hand that is strong enough to force via 2H is strong enough to want to be in game if partner fits the suit: if you're not that strong, then pass 2D.

So, for me, the idea that we can try 2H and get out in 3H opposite a minimum makes no sense....if doing so means that we must jump with a max. Not to mention that Ax KJxxxx in the reds sure looks like a GOOD hand opposite a forcing 2H response

BTW, I have in the past used an artificial 3C rebid by opener to show a minimum with a fit.... and in that sequence we can still play 3H, while not destroying our own bidding space when opener has a maximum with a fit.

And a fit is defined as Hx (H=Q+) or any 3 card support.

[Fluffy]

mikeh, on May 23 2007, 03:36 PM, said:

I have seen the suggestion that partner's raise of 2H to 3H could be passed. I have never played that, and, frankly, don't think it makes a lot of sense.

I don't think it has any sense specially on this hand, how can 3♥ be better than 2♦?, if we are going to bid it has to be to find a makeable game

Nobody else but me thinks lead directing 2♠ is worth anything so probably I was wrong.