[jtfanclub]

cherdano, on May 22 2007, 05:10 PM, said:

If 1♥ was a psyche or misbid then that is even more reason to pass, because after passing you may later bid hearts naturally, after 2♣ you will never be able to do that.

I don't think I'll be able to bid it naturally after passing either, since I assume that will end the auction.

[jdonn]

The full hand.

Scoring: MP

---

Passers win. Spades makes 7 tricks (it is not hard for me to find the heart ruff when I get in, on the assumption partner would have led a singleton heart if she had one.) At the table north rebid 4♠ and went -300 undoubled, to give us a decent board, I think 5.5 out of 8. If you bid 2♣ it's hard to believe any partner wouldn't rebid at least 3♠ and then it's just a matter of getting the smallest minus. If you pass 1♠ you get 6 out of 8, as the only pair to go plus on offense (a few E/W got carried away in diamonds.)

I liked pass then and nothing has changed my mind. It makes me think of S.J. Simon's best possible score vs. best score possible concept.

[mike777]

It does seem east has a clear 3D bid over one spade and west should pass that.

[goobers]

If 3D is fitted, then it is not so clear

[jdonn]

mike777, on May 22 2007, 06:24 PM, said:

It does seem east has a clear 3D bid over one spade and west should pass that.

1: 3♦ is fit showing.
2: That contract would go down 1, on the obvious defense of club lead to the ace, and AK and another diamond. EW would lose a spade, two diamonds, and two clubs. And that is with east catching good support in dummy too. North might even double, which south would pass knowing the contract is one of the all time misfits in history. And as you saw, any minus for east west is a terrible score.
3: It is not so clear anyway. East has a void in partner's suit, opponents who might not have a fit, and both vul is terrible for over-competing for a partscore at matchpoints.

[Foxx]

You're seriously telling me East picked up and sat on 7-4 shape in the unbid suits? Where the F was his negative double?

[Foxx]

No high card points? Huh? With 4-4 in the minors and another queen, everybody would make the double. Now you're giving his hand three extra diamonds and he's supposed to go quietly? Huh? What disaster. The worst that can happen is that opener will rebid or jump in hearts, in the latter case hearts will play OK, in the former case I can retreat to 3♦, weak. I have seven of 'em and extra shape so I can only expect diamonds to play OK..... if North hadn't overcalled 1♠ most experts would respond 1NT with the East hand leading to most of the disasters that would occur here.....

Why is this worth making such a big fuss over, you may ask. Well, the absence of a negative double on my right provided much of my justification for believing we could have a big club fit in the first place.

[jdonn]

Foxx, on May 23 2007, 06:55 AM, said:

The worst that can happen is that opener will rebid or jump in hearts, in the latter case hearts will play OK.....

Based on your void and total lack of tricks??

4-4 in the minors (lets say 3244) and another queen makes a potentially useful dummy for any contract. This dummy is utterly useless in hearts, which is where you are usually going to end up after doubling. However if you pass you can often get back into diamonds later.

Quote

Why is this worth making such a big fuss over, you may ask.  Well, the absence of a negative double on my right provided much of my justification for believing we could have a big club fit in the first place.

West had a singleton which does not have to be the case. Your partner doesn't need any clubs at all.

[jtfanclub]

Foxx, on May 23 2007, 06:55 AM, said:

No high card points? Huh? With 4-4 in the minors and another queen, everybody would make the double.

Ummm...admittedly, I'm the pigeon who took the bait. But I would never negative double for the minors with a hand planning to pass partner's opening bid. And without WJS, you couldn't get me to respond to 1♥ with that hand with a stick. Give me another queen, and I'll still pass it.

I knew it was a risk (and I knew it would fail since it was on the forums). I lost. No excuses.

[Foxx]

Gee whillickers, and I thought we were entering an era in which people were making responses with weaker and weaker hands.

I'm sure you'll have fun explaining to partner what you were doing in 1♥ when he has ♠AQ ♥AJxxx ♦x ♣AQxxx and a slam in clubs has a great chance to come in.

[jdonn]

Foxx, on May 23 2007, 06:35 PM, said:

Gee whillickers, and I thought we were entering an era in which people were making responses with weaker and weaker hands.

I'm sure you'll have fun explaining to partner what you were doing in 1♥ when he has ♠AQ ♥AJxxx ♦x ♣AQxxx and a slam in clubs has a great chance to come in.

They had overcalled 1♠ already, you don't need to keep the auction alive with trash since he is getting another chance. I agree it would be a different sort of problem if it was 1♥ P to East.

[jtfanclub]

jdonn, on May 23 2007, 06:46 PM, said:

I agree it would be a different sort of problem if it was 1♥ P to East.

Sorry, I was the person who said that I'd pass across a 1♥ openers, even with another queen.

What about yourself? Would you have passed it?

[jdonn]

At mps it's tough, I think I would pass since I hate this vul, and I think partner will be rebidding hearts on some level and going down too often. At imps, 100%, and even at mps I don't mind responding.

[pclayton]

Late here; sorry.

1♥ insufficient looks good; and then 2♣ barring pard if they don't accept.

Seriously I pass and writhe as pard competes in diamonds.