[inquiry]

For more on xyz conention see post like http://forums.bridgebase.com/in...?showtopic=1630

[Trpltrbl]

I play that 2 shows good hand very strongly invitational but not GF, since I am passed hand. Everything else stays pretty much the same.

Mike

[flytoox]

I am thinking about another related issue, i.e., the third hand 1NT opening range. When you hold 11-12hcp and heard pd opened in the third seat, then usually you will be very keen on game. However, in the third seat, pd will usually open light. This two facts often bring you and pd to bad 3NT contract, it is bad because 3N is usually a result of wihtout fit. How to solve this problem?
My thought: 1. 1M opening at third hand can be light, though not necessay, but 1m opening must be either sound or shapely, with balanced 12hcp hand, facing a passed pd, you are not going anywhere.
2. Adjusting NT range. Open 1N=13-14, so pd can invite with 11. so one level opening and 1N rebid =15-16(17). one level opening and rebid the original suit at two level is shapely hand.

Any comments?
Fly

[inquiry]

Well, I asked this question because I always played xyz -- passed hand or not. Then the other day, I was playing a hand with Mishovnbg where I was a passed hand and I came upon an inbetweener. I had to decide on a rebid holding...

S-Ax
H-JT98
D-A
C-JTxxxx

Our auction was...

P-1D
1H-1S
?

Couple of issuess, we play 1S as 100% forcing. Over this 1S, our rebids are (especially by unpassed hand)....

1NT - I had to bid, so no fit, don't expect a lot
2C - forces 2D as either signoff or game invite (a real strong 1S rebidder can ignore the "forced" 2D bid
2NT - transfer to 3C as signoff or some hands with long hearts,
2S - maybe 3 cards, definetlly not forward going... 1S was forcing and could have used 2C.... etc.

So over 1S here, I could have bid 2C (transfer to 2D) then rebid 2NT or 3C to show invite hand... I suspect tha tis what I should have done. I choose 1NT due to the misfit nature of the hand (I have 3 cards in my partner's two suits). This is ok, I can make 1 or 2NT or 3C/4C. But then Misho raised the issue of rather xyz should be off after a passed hand. I agreed ok, but since he and I play new suit forcing by opener, I have begun to rethink this and still believe it is best to go through 2C/2D check back with the "goodish" hands as responders to separte things like the good raises from the bad raises.

On this issue of changing the meaning of the 3rd seat 1NT bid, there might be some merit in that, but then I like the weak notrump in all positions.

Ben