[gwnn]

Scoring: XIMP

p-?

---

MBC hand, your partner is very good but you havent fixed a system very exactly (you both seem to be sound openers tho), your opps are somewhere between good and very good and you are... South.

[mike777]

gwnn, on Apr 10 2007, 02:47 AM, said:

Dealer: East Vul: None Scoring: XIMP

♠ xx ♥ AQTxxx ♦ K8743 ♣

p-?

MBC hand, your partner is very good but you havent fixed a system very exactly (you both seem to be sound openers tho), your opps are somewhere between good and very good and you are... South.

with a pickup partner in second seat...


2H...no problems yet

I do not bid on junk in second seat.

[jchiu]

3♥. One of my pet theories: with a 6-5 hand that has reasonable suits but does not have sufficient defense to open at the one level, I tend to preempt at the three level in my six-card suit except when I hold both majors. The primary advantage is getting your first suit off your chest quickly and shutting the opponents out of your auction.

This does have its downsides, especially when your primary fit is in your five-card side suit and partner has insufficient strength to keep the auction open. This is the primary disadvantage, but the only times where I have achieved atrocioius results opening on the three level come from violating basic principles: opening with both majors, opening (in third seat) with a hand that Alvin Roth would open with a smile (in first seat), and opening on complete garbage vulnerable.

By the way, I think 2♥ is a bit wet with this hand except in second seat at unfavorable vulnerability. It would be swinging against most modern players to define your weak twos this soundly.

[Gerben42]

A bit similar to Jason but a bit braver.

4♥, Leufkens' rule of 11.

[jchiu]

Gerben42, on Apr 10 2007, 08:20 AM, said:

A bit similar to Jason but a bit braver.

4♥, Leufkens' rule of 11.

Ya callin me a chicken?

On a more serious note, I think 4♥ is appropriate if it does not deviate too wildly from your preempting style. Paul Gipson, in another thread, just made the keen observation that European preempts tend to be less rigid than American preempts. I would most certainly agree that this is much closer to a 4♥ than 2♥ opening.

[Gerben42]

This must be why Namyats is so popular here
No this does not deviate from my preempting style, even though I am not with the crowd that opens 3x on 6 to the Queen when favourable.

[paulg]

This is a clear 1♥ opener for me with 4♥ the other option.

In second seat I think it is even clearer to open 1♥ as there is a greater chance that partner has a good hand.

p

[mike777]

cardsharp, on Apr 10 2007, 03:38 AM, said:

This is a clear 1♥ opener for me with 4♥ the other option.

In second seat I think it is even clearer to open 1♥ as there is a greater chance that partner has a good hand.

p

I hope your pickup partners understand you open 1h with this hand type.

With lots of discussion ok. but a pickup partner? ugg

and ugg to the 4h bidders in a p/u game


I think 2h is perfect

We are in second seat here.

[whereagles]

4♥, wtp?

[Free]

I think 2♥ is an enormous underbid which partner will not be able to read. I mean, opening 2♥ NV with so much playing strength is literally raping this hand!

The only possibilities imo are 1♥ and 4♥. Since we have solid openers I prefer 4♥. But I would never blame partner if he'd open 1♥ with such hands.

[Gerben42]

Quote

I think 2♥ is an enormous underbid which partner will not be able to read. I mean, opening 2♥ NV with so much playing strength is literally raping this hand!

I was consulting the commentator handbook for some nicer words while you were posting this but in principle I agree 100%... Opening 2♥ is a good way to make sure partner never plays with me again. If your goal is to not upset partner you have to pass rather than open any number of ♥.

[helene_t]

Playing Precision, 1♥ is clearcut IMHO, playing SA it's close between 1♥ and 3/4♥.

Passing just because I wasn't sure what to open is not my style all though I think pass is more likely to work out well than 2♥. After all, if you pass you know you get a second chance (albeit possible at the 5-level). If you open 2♥ partner may raise you to 4 making seven, or he may double opps in 3 or 4 spades and then you have to show discipline and pass, since two wrongs don't make a right (sorry, Gerben, if your favorite phrase wasn't intended for this kind of decisions).

[zasanya]

Will it be wrong to pass and then come in (at 5 level if required) to show my strong 2 suiter lacking opening hcps?

[helene_t]

zasanya, on Apr 10 2007, 01:02 PM, said:

Will it be wrong to pass and then come in (at 5 level if required) to show my strong 2 suiter lacking opening hcps?

In a certain sense it's the most disciplined way of bidding this hand.

But the five-level may be too high, and opening 4♥ may be the only way of avoiding it. Even if the 4♥ is too high, it's much more difficult for opps to make the right decision if you open 4♥ than if you pass and overcall in next round.

Also, passing does not discourage partner from preempting in clubs. Not sure if you can show your hand after partner preempts in clubs.

Showing a two-suiter is nice when partner has a good fit for diamonds. But it also helps declarer if you end up defending, and partner may choose diamonds if he doesn't have a preference, on the basis of the theory that with better hearts you'd probably just bid hearts.

This all being said, the fact that your void is in clubs makes passing defendable. You don't really mind if opps end up in a spade contract or if partner preempts in spades. Opps may not be able to find their club fit because of lack of club-showing openings, and even if they do you may be able to outbid them.

As for the "you asked for it when you agreed not to play Muiderberg" option: No I didn't. Playing Muiderberg, a 2♥ opening followed by a (possibly undisciplined) 4♦ bid shows 5 hearts and 6 diamonds. Of course it could be argued that it's a better description than a 4♥ opening but I don't think it makes up for the fact that a Muiderberg 2♥ opening is an extreme underbid.

[ArcLight]

I can see 1♥ or 4♥.
- It takes little from pard to make game.
- RHO passed, so there is less need to preempt the opponents.
Bidding 2♥ or 3♥ risks pard passing, or misunderstanding your hand and bidding something else, or doubling the opponents.

1♥ risks letting the opponents into the bidding, but it allows exploration for slam.

It would take a bit form pard to make slam, like the aces of ♠ and ♦, plus a ♦ suit or the ♥ king.

Not likley, but possible.


If you bid 4♥, will pard bid 6 with:
♠ Axxx
♥ Kx
♦ Axx
♣ xxx

What if pard has
♠ Qxx
♥ Kx
♦ Axx
♣ AKQxx

Bidding 1♥ may let the opps compete and they find a save, but you still get a plus score. OR you may find slam.

[Edmunte1]

1♥ my choice. 4♥ might put some pressure and make opps take the wrong road, so it deserves some credit

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

Pass.

I can live with 1H and 4H, but I have made
up my mind and I wont change course unless
I encouter real problems.

2H (weak 2) followed by a diamond bid is
ok as well, my regular partner does it,
and I know it.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[bid_em_up]

zasanya, on Apr 10 2007, 06:02 AM, said:

Will it be wrong to pass and then come in (at 5 level if required) to show my strong 2 suiter lacking opening hcps?

No, it won't.

And it is unlikely you will have to come in "at the 5 level".

If playing Muiderberg, open it 2H. Otherwise, pass.

BTW, partner is never (or shouldn't be) opening 3C in the passout seat, and my particular methods actually prevent partner from preempting in clubs after an opening bid by LHO (we use 3C as a 5-5 specific suit showing bid), so thats something I dont have to worry about.

Hands like this, I find, are usually better to let the auction progress normally and hear what is going on. It is unlikely to go all pass, and I think I will be better placed on the next round of bidding to describe my hand. Opening it in 2nd seat, distorts both my values and shape as I may well be unable to show a 2 suited hand at my next opportunity.

[SoTired]

1H even tho I hate a opening bid with less than 10 HCP. But this is a 5-loser hand, for goodness sakes! How can you open it 2H or even 3H? And passing is just as bad. Partner will never think that game is on holding something xxx Kxx Axx xxxx. If you pass and try to back into the auction, you may never hear from partner with that holding.

So either 1H or 4H. But 4H loses the diam suit and puts all your eggs in one basket, so 1H looks best. The biggest downside to 1H is that you may erroneously pull partner's black suit penalty dbl.

[skjaeran]

1♥ for me. 2♥ (weak) I'd never ever even consider. Even playing very constructive weak two's, this hand's got way too much playing strenght.

Muiderberg or the like is also a no-no for me. I'd never do that with a 6 card major suit. We'd far too often play in the wrong suit or at wrong level.

3/4♥ is possible, of course, 3♥ at red, 4♥ at amber, white or green. But I prefer 1♥. State of match, who I'm playing etc would be taken into consideration.