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Last weekend we played against a pair that played Canape transfer openings. In particular 1♦ showed hearts and 1♥ showed spades. In both cases the suit could be four cards in length and could have a longer suit.
We agreed as part of our defense that an overcall of 1♥ or 1♠ would be natural.
So I sat there and watched as the bidding progressed to me:
(1♥*) 1♠ (2♠) ?
Naturally enough I was short in spades.
The problem I had was what would bids mean now? In particular what would a double mean and what would a bid of 2NT mean?
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All Three Opponents Bid the Same Suit
#1
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Posted 2007-March-15, 00:30
Wayne Burrows
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#2
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Posted 2007-March-15, 05:31
Your partner has the same information. Ie he knows you are short in spades.
D should be the usual in such situations;
take out with four in the other major, with some defensive possibilities if partner wish to pass for punishment (having some defensive trick together with the spades or short in the other major). 2NT = choose minor.
D should be the usual in such situations;
take out with four in the other major, with some defensive possibilities if partner wish to pass for punishment (having some defensive trick together with the spades or short in the other major). 2NT = choose minor.
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#3
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Posted 2007-March-16, 20:47
It's interesting how you have three opponents at the table. 
#4
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Posted 2007-March-16, 21:34
I'm not sure why you and partner both would expect 2♠ to be natural here. If it was, then we are in a weird world indeed.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."
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#5
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Posted 2007-March-17, 13:18
kenrexford, on Mar 17 2007, 04:34 PM, said:
I'm not sure why you and partner both would expect 2♠ to be natural here. If it was, then we are in a weird world indeed.
That is a good observation since the local alert regulations do not require an alert of a cue-bid. And a cue-bid is defined as a bid in a suit shown or bid by the opponents. Therefore both 1♠ and 2♠ by definition were cue-bids and did not require alerts whatever their meaning.
Nevertheless 2♠ was intended as natural and so the world is weird and I had a problem at the table.
Curiously the transfer opening pair had an identical auction yesterday in another tournament.
Wayne Burrows
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#6
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Posted 2007-March-17, 13:25
From my perspective
Double should be penalty: You are showing defensive value, but (obviously) denies a defensive trump holding
2N should be takeout showing a High ODR and no interest in a NT contract
Double should be penalty: You are showing defensive value, but (obviously) denies a defensive trump holding
2N should be takeout showing a High ODR and no interest in a NT contract
Alderaan delenda est
#7
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Posted 2007-March-17, 17:16
ahri, on Mar 16 2007, 09:47 PM, said:
It's interesting how you have three opponents at the table.
Heh. I've been known to play with four opponents at the table.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#8
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Posted 2007-March-18, 18:31
How about:
Double = values, including a promise that they will go down
2N = invitational to 3N
3C = clubs
3D = diamonds
3H = hearts
3S = cuebid, strong takeout
Oh sorry, this stuff is probably not allowed in this subforum...
Seriously, unless you play a lot of good-bad, isn't it clear that all bids here are undiscussed, possibly natural (except 3S) and thus natural? Only question is whether new suit bids are forcing. If 1H 1S 2H 3m is non-forcing for you, then new suit bids here should probably be non-forcing, too. If it is forcing, it is not as clear as with the misfit auction of this thread there is a stronger case for non-forcing.
Arend
Double = values, including a promise that they will go down
2N = invitational to 3N
3C = clubs
3D = diamonds
3H = hearts
3S = cuebid, strong takeout
Oh sorry, this stuff is probably not allowed in this subforum...
Seriously, unless you play a lot of good-bad, isn't it clear that all bids here are undiscussed, possibly natural (except 3S) and thus natural? Only question is whether new suit bids are forcing. If 1H 1S 2H 3m is non-forcing for you, then new suit bids here should probably be non-forcing, too. If it is forcing, it is not as clear as with the misfit auction of this thread there is a stronger case for non-forcing.
Arend
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#9
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Posted 2007-March-18, 22:50
Ostensibly, partner has shown 5+S and a fair hand.
If my RHO really thinks he wants to play 2S my pass is to play, double should be penalty oriented saying they have misguessed badly (with other suits tied up so they have nowhere to run) if that style is played. If you play cue bid doubles, that meaning is retained as it is equivalent (in my style a transfer to C).
2NT should either be natural or transfer depending on orientation and prior discussion (some play NT bids natural , other as always artificial in competition). This should just maintain consistency with partnership style.
If my RHO really thinks he wants to play 2S my pass is to play, double should be penalty oriented saying they have misguessed badly (with other suits tied up so they have nowhere to run) if that style is played. If you play cue bid doubles, that meaning is retained as it is equivalent (in my style a transfer to C).
2NT should either be natural or transfer depending on orientation and prior discussion (some play NT bids natural , other as always artificial in competition). This should just maintain consistency with partnership style.
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