[glen]

Well the question I posed here has not been answered by anybody yet:

officeglen, on Mar 5 2007, 11:50 PM, said:

As a spec, one wonders what one should do, if anything at all.  In f2f, if a spec called a TD about an illegal convention, wouldn't the TD just tell them to be quiet, as they are just there to watch?  Likewise should a spec email acbl@bridgebase.com, since it did not happen against them?  What about the case where the "spec" was a player in the tourney in question, but the transfer preempt did not come up against them?

So the purpose of posting on the forum was not to resolve the issue, but to understand if sending an email would be appropriate.

[jdonn]

officeglen, on Mar 17 2007, 11:37 AM, said:

Well the question I posed here has not been answered by anybody yet:

officeglen, on Mar 5 2007, 11:50 PM, said:

As a spec, one wonders what one should do, if anything at all.  In f2f, if a spec called a TD about an illegal convention, wouldn't the TD just tell them to be quiet, as they are just there to watch?  Likewise should a spec email acbl@bridgebase.com, since it did not happen against them?  What about the case where the "spec" was a player in the tourney in question, but the transfer preempt did not come up against them?

So the purpose of posting on the forum was not to resolve the issue, but to understand if sending an email would be appropriate.

For certain a spec should not call a director to the table, either ftf or online. As far as letting them know later, it seems reasonable to me as long as the spec has taken the care to be SURE he is right about what is being played and that it is illegal, which it seems you have, or at least are in the process of doing.

[hrothgar]

officeglen, on Mar 17 2007, 07:37 PM, said:

Well the question I posed here has not been answered by anybody yet:

officeglen, on Mar 5 2007, 11:50 PM, said:

As a spec, one wonders what one should do, if anything at all.  In f2f, if a spec called a TD about an illegal convention, wouldn't the TD just tell them to be quiet, as they are just there to watch?  Likewise should a spec email acbl@bridgebase.com, since it did not happen against them?  What about the case where the "spec" was a player in the tourney in question, but the transfer preempt did not come up against them?

So the purpose of posting on the forum was not to resolve the issue, but to understand if sending an email would be appropriate.

If you want to be technical about things, spectators do not have the legal standing to draw attention to an iregularity.

Law 11 states

B. Irregularity Called by Spectator

1. Spectator Responsibility of Non-Offending Side

The right to penalize an irregularity may be forfeited if attention is first drawn to the irregularity by a spectator for whose presence at the table the non-offending side is responsible.

2. Spectator Responsibility of Offending Side
The right to correct an irregularity may be forfeited if attention is first drawn to the irregularity by a spectator for whose presence at the table the offending side is responsible.

[Jacki]

Although the forum posters are correct about kibitzer's rights and they MAY be ignored by a TD if called by them, I think it's perfectly acceptable for anyone at all to draw attention to an illegality or irregularity, particularly if it appears to be ongoing.

If this means the person seeing this irregularity calls attention to it after the fact, since they may have no right to call at the time it happens, isn't that better than not reporting it at all?

We have a great many players in our games, some of the games are quite large, some of them are quite fast and some are both large AND fast. This means that a TD cannot see what's going on at each table all the time or even most of the time. The TDs rely on player's calls to adjudicate. The ACBL Coordinator on BBO relies on email feedback to attempt to fix ongoing or budding problems.

So, if the question was, should a spectator write to ACBL@bridgebase.com to point out what appears to be an ongoing irregularity in the bidding? Then the answer is: Absolutely. Just as someone seeing a violation of BBO rules on language may report the incident to abuse@bridgebase.com even though they were not directly involved in the incident themselves.

Jacki

[blackshoe]

If a kibitzer brought to my attention as TD a possible infraction in an ongoing game, I would be annoyed at his violation of Law 76 (which basically tells him to keep his mouth shut), while constrained by Law 81C6 to deal with the infraction. I might ban for cause such a person from kibitzing future sessions . If a kibitzer brought to my attention the possibility of long-term misunderstanding of the conditions of contest or of cheating, after the correction period for the current session has expired, I would be happy to investigate.

In the case at hand, if the question is "how should a kibitzer handle this in ACBL tournaments on BBO?" I would suggest an email to acbl@bbonline.com, or whatever the correct address is.

I would also suggest such an email if a kibitzer feels that a TD has incorrectly allowed the use of an illegal [sic] convention. After all, TDs are human. If I made that mistake, I'd certainly want to be made aware that it was a mistake, so that I could correct it. It is not, however, a kibitzer's place to tell me so - that is the prerogative of the CTD or the SO.