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What to respond?

#1 User is offline   jim420 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 08:45

You hold:

Scoring: IMP

P 1♣ P ?


LHO deals, p opens 1♣ in front of u, what do u bid?

3NT? 4NT? 1♠? 5♣? or others?

EDIT: typo corrected :)
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#2 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 08:47

(Sorry about the initial reply. Mistook my Clubs for Diamonds)

I'd start with a forcing club raise. (Ideally, I'd like to be able to bid 2♣)
Alderaan delenda est
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#3 User is offline   jim420 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 09:01

should be me who should say sorry, copied out from a lin file and typed in sequence, thus resulting in clubs changing into diamonds, now corrected.
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#4 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 09:02

The answer to this question depends upon the tools that you have available and the agreed limitations on those tools.

A forcing club raise might make sense, unless you play that a forcing club raise denies a four-card major, and only if you have a forcing club raise.

A 1♠ response makes sense if you have the tools to later agree clubs and force game.

All-in-all, tho, it seems that a slow approach makes sense on this hand.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#5 User is offline   brianshark 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 09:07

1♠.
The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is.
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#6 User is offline   firmit 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 09:08

Depending on what 1C means for me. If 1C is 2+, then 1S is textbook-correct. If partner shows 3-4 card support in spades, it would be hard for me to convince him of my clubs. If 1C is 3+, there are more trumph in clubs than in spades. I would bid a forcing club raise - in either case I think.
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#7 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 09:28

2D game forcing club raise, no problems, yet.(CrissCross)
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#8 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 09:48

If we've agreed to play criss cross I've forgotten it - keep it simple 1♠
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
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SHAPE!
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#9 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 09:50

1S.

5C is only an option, if you
have ruled out 3NT and 6C.

3NT: hearts / diamonds are open,
4NT: you have no clue, if partner has
a min / max opener

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Even if I had a forcing club raise
available, I would simply bid 1S.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#10 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 09:53

jillybean2, on Feb 15 2007, 10:48 AM, said:

If we've agreed to play criss cross I've forgotten it - keep it simple 1♠

I just hope we can show a game force in clubs later, without any trouble, but I am worried after one spade.

If partner does not rebid 1nt now or we do not play game force checkback, hmm.
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#11 User is offline   Apollo81 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 11:09

1♠. Will bid clubs later.
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#12 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 13:48

If you play inverted minors, a 2♣ response is certainly possible. At the table I would start with 1♠.
--Ben--

#13 User is offline   cinvent77 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 14:06

This hand seems hard to bid if you don't play any conventions.

Suppose you play standard and start with 1♠ what would you rebid after 1♣ - 1♠ - 1NT? or after 1♣ - 1♠ - 2♣? Take a pessimist view and bid 3NT, bid 4NT and hope partner understands is quantitative rather than respond 5♦ with one ace?

I think I'll bid 3NT.

Clearly we need either Inverted minors or some Checkback Stayman. As an aside, do people respond 2♣ (forcing) with a 4-card major and game-forcing values? It's seems reasonable to me, but the books I've read all explicitly say no 4-card major is allowed.
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#14 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 14:14

I would respond 2♣ when holding a four card major when I was going to make a very strong slam try (or force to slam if we are not off quick tricks). I said I would bid 1♠ with this hand because despite the good club fit, it is not enough to force to slam (I will be making a slam try on a lot of auctions).

I play xyz so I have no problem over a 2♣ or 1NT rebid (do you really think partner is going to rebid 2♣ on this hand?)
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#15 User is offline   cinvent77 

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  Posted 2007-February-15, 14:29

Quote

do you really think partner is going to rebid 2♣ on this hand?


No, of course not. And now that I think of it (only a little tough :) ), if he does, I could bid 4♣ so not really a problem after all.

What after a 1NT rebid?

BTW xyz is a marvelously mysterious sounding name for a bridge convention ...
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#16 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 14:39

cinvent77, on Feb 15 2007, 03:29 PM, said:

BTW xyz is a marvelously mysterious sounding name for a bridge convention ...

xyz stands for 1x-1y-1z-then both minors (2C and 2D) are "forcing". See for example, this article at the part starting both minors forcing.
What pro's play
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#17 User is offline   goobers 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 16:29

I thought this convention was called 2-way NMF or 2-way checkback?
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#18 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 16:33

No, 2 way checkback is a bit different from XYZ, but they are close.
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#19 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 16:40

goobers, on Feb 15 2007, 05:29 PM, said:

I thought this convention was called 2-way NMF or 2-way checkback?

I am not much for formal termnology, but these three agreements are essentially the same thing, but I believe there maybe some small differences...

2-way NMF, is 2 way new minor forcing, so I take this to mean both minors have been unbid (new minor). If one has been bid, then only the other is forcing.

2-way check back is essentially xyz, I think, but perhaps with a little difference. If memory serves me correctly, 2 way check back is after 1x-1y-1NT only.

xyz, is often played after any 1x-1y-1z auction, that can include pass or double (negative) by responder if opponents bid, for example, and 1z can be 1S or 1H.

So in xyz...
1C-(1H)-DBL-(Pass)
1S-(Ps)-2C/2D <<---- is still xyz... although FEW play this, some do.

Also, two way checkback as written up in bridgebase online 2/1 advance is a little different from xyz as describe by the various authorities... But again, for most part xyz is the almost identical to 2 way checkback.
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#20 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2007-February-15, 16:53

No, 2 way checkback is more limited, only after nt rebid and 2clubs does not force 2d as many play in XYZ.
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