[Poky]

IMP. All love.

♠x
♥KJT
♦QJTxx
♣Axxx

1♦ 2♠ pass pass
??


What do you bid and why?

[mike777]

X easy, assuming this is a normal opening hand that partner will expect.

If partner expects more then I do not open 1D.

[inquiry]

You got to reopen with a double or they will be stealing your lunch money way too often. Partner with a penalty double and a spade stack relies on you to reopen with a takeout dbl.

[dake50]

Partner denies 4-5H with 9+hcp; denies 3+D w 9-10; denies 4+C w 10+; denies S stop w 10+!!! What is left??

[inquiry]

dake50, on Feb 8 2007, 12:05 PM, said:

Partner denies 4-5H with 9+hcp; denies 3+D w 9-10; denies 4+C w 10+; denies S stop w 10+!!! What is left??

Five good spades and 13 hcp? I mean, if he wants to bury them he can not double, as you note with your reply, as that would be "negative". He has to trust you to reopen with a double. Don't let him down.

[BebopKid]

I would not have opened that hand.

[FrancesHinden]

I'm a strong believer that if you think your hand was an opening bid, you are then compelled to reopen with shortage in the overcaller's suit.

(OK, we can probably construct an exception. But this hand isn't one. If it's an opening bid in your style, it's a reopening double. If it's not an opening bid, don't open it.)

[FrancesHinden]

dake50, on Feb 8 2007, 05:05 PM, said:

Partner denies 4-5H with 9+hcp; denies 3+D w 9-10; denies 4+C w 10+; denies S stop w 10+!!! What is left??

Apart from partner's penalty double, a double partial swing opposite, say,

Qxxx
Qxx
x
Kxxxx

[pclayton]

BebopKid, on Feb 8 2007, 11:32 AM, said:

I would not have opened that hand.

Neither would I. I am a big believer in not opening 1 of a minor with marginal hands and both minors.

Having opened this, this is an auto-double, but I'd want to look at the demeanor of my RHO.

[jtfanclub]

Poky, on Feb 8 2007, 08:44 AM, said:

IMP. All love.

♠x
♥KJT
♦QJTxx
♣Axxx

1♦ 2♠ pass pass
??


What do you bid and why?

Seems to me that three years ago, I argued that doubling with this hand was silly, it got heated, things were said, and I stopped posting here for two years.

After two years, I apparently haven't learned any better. If partner has the penalty double sort of hand, he'll probably still be my partner when we get +100 instead of +300. If RHO has the strongest hand at the table, and I'm betting he does, then passing gives them 140 instead of 800. Even if partner has a penalty X sort of hand, I'm not sure we're going to set it. I'm betting this is two tricks on defense, and partner should reasonably expect me to have 3.

I guess I'm the only person on the planet who considers this an opener and feels no obligation to 'protect' partner's penalty X. In the last two years, only once have I passed where partner had a penalty X hand- she had AKxxx in their suit (and maybe a jack somewhere else, at most), and was upset when I didn't protect. She was less upset when they made it.

Has anybody actually done a hand comparison for this, or is this just based on faith?

I promise, this is my last post in this thread. I learned my lesson last time.

Edited to add...sorry, one exception to the promise. If somebody sends me all the hands where dealer opened 1m, got overcalled 2M, and two passes, I'll be happy to analyze them, or if I can figure it out myself.

[mike777]

I open this kind of Junk all the time. Auto double, most of the time it pays off big, a few times I go for poor score but it is the cost of doing business.

[Gerben42]

Quote

I'm a strong believer that if you think your hand was an opening bid, you are then compelled to reopen with shortage in the overcaller's suit.

Agree! Double.

And yes I would have opened.

[Free]

Easy double imo.

I also agree that it's no use in opening this junk and crawling back later. If you open, you compete, that's why you opened in the first place...

[FrancesHinden]

Quote

After two years, I apparently haven't learned any better. If partner has the penalty double sort of hand, he'll probably still be my partner when we get +100 instead of +300

The last time I had this auction, the opening bidder (my partner) had a 0436 10-count that he decided to open at love all. The auction when 1C - 2S - P - P and he passed it out. I had a 23-count with a 5143 and we scored up +200. At the other table it went P 2S P P x for 800.

Now, you can argue that is hand is actually justification for passing 2S out: partner claimed he would have reopened with 3C, not a double, as he had so little defence which would have resulted in 6C-1 when the side suit lie was unkind.

But he's still my partner!

[mike777]

Larry Cohen definitely would not reopen with an x with a void. He does have concrete examples of this in his books.

[Apollo81]

autodouble