[starfruit]

P.S. View page 2 for the other side of the problem

Scoring: IMP

---

The bidding went :

N    E    S    W
--   1♠   2NT   3♠
5♣ 5♠    ?

The agreement was to play 2NT as 2 lowest unbid suits, either very weak or very strong.

So now here we are, stucked with a guess.
Seems to me that either Pass, X or 6♣ are possible calls. . .
But since partner's 5♣ seems weak, looks like 6♣ would be rather unlikely to make.

Thus I think the question is whether we should make some move to show that we in fact have the stronger version of 2NT overcall...
But a X might fetch us a 5♠X = or 6♣X -3

(Switch the vul and perhaps it's easier to X since we don't mind partner bidding 6? Or did he have that option at all?)

What do you think we should do?
By the way do you agree with the initial 2NT overcall?

[the hog]

I would x now. No, I don't agree with the immediate 2NT bid given your constraints. This is an intermediate hand, though at the top end.

[mike777]

pard bid 5c at unfav vul when we can have nothing ...wow......that means partner thinks we have 10 tricks in clubs if I have the weak hand?

I x....and think 6c is very close/

At least p knows we have the strong hand now and not the weak zero defense one.

[vang]

if 2NT is either weak or strong, DBL now just shows the strong variant, i guess...

[Codo]

The_Hog, on Jan 31 2007, 03:20 PM, said:

I would x now. No, I don't agree with the immediate 2NT bid given your constraints. This is an intermediate hand, though at the top end.

yes...

[FrancesHinden]

vang, on Jan 31 2007, 06:58 AM, said:

if 2NT is either weak or strong, DBL now just shows the strong variant, i guess...

Yes.
Though our hand is more intermediate than strong.

[helene_t]

Yes, dbl shows the strong hand, usually without extra distribution. 6♣ would be appropriate with six good clubs and a void spades.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

- 2NT is fine.
- you should ask, if 3S was merely comp.
or if it showed inv. strength (you may find
out, that they have no defence against 2NT,
but thie would also be worth knowing, besides,
it gives you time to think ...)
- Pass

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

P_Marlowe, on Jan 31 2007, 12:14 PM, said:

- you should ask, if 3S was merely comp.
or if it showed inv. strength (you may find
out, that they have no defence against 2NT,
but thie would also be worth knowing, besides,
it gives you time to think ...)

I hate those silly questions, and this is an extreme case. The style of the 3♠ bid is much more dependant on the mood of the player than on agreements. Even in the extremelty unlikely event that opps have some agreement, it's not very relevant since partner and opener are quite wide-ranged as well. In fact, you're the only one who's in position to make a statement about general strength and you blew it up by overcalling a split-range 2NT with an intermediate hand.

If it's online, opps are even more unlikely to have specific agreements about this and if they have they should have volunteered with that information. In fact, your question could make some players disclose their hand rather than their agreement.

If it's real-life, your question gives information to everybody. And the way opener explains his partner's bid may suggest something about his own intentions when bidding 5♠.

[whereagles]

Dbl. This shows 2NT was of the strong variety. The problem with this bid is that it leaves the weak hand to make what is probably the most important decision in the whole deal. But I can't figure out a better call.

[mike777]

Does no one wonder how the weak hand expects to make 10 tricks in clubs across from our weak hand?

[helene_t]

mike777, on Jan 31 2007, 01:14 PM, said:

Does no one wonder how the weak hand expects to make 10 tricks in clubs across from our weak hand?

No, partner is captain so I just describe my hand. If 6♣ is right partner will bid it.

[pclayton]

I like double. Expresses the strength of the hand. Give me 0-3 in the majors and I will try 6♣.

[whereagles]

helene_t, on Jan 31 2007, 12:49 PM, said:

No, partner is captain so I just describe my hand.

I firmly believe this is a wrong strategy when holding a strong hand. I do however agree we need to enlist pard's help on this one.

[han]

Double seems so straightforward that I expect it was a disaster at the table.

[starfruit]

Hannie, on Jan 31 2007, 07:11 PM, said:

Double seems so straightforward that I expect it was a disaster at the table.

Agree.

I'm actually more interested in whether if 2NT is ok as a strong 2 suiter though.

I think at this vulnerability + the fact that we're holding minors makes 2NT less desirable.

[starfruit]

Now for the other side of the problem :

Scoring: IMP

---

I was the one who made the 5♣ call, thinking that our opponents are cold for 5♠ and so hoping that they'll make a wrong guess to lvl 5/6.
So unfortunately as the cards lie we're cold(?) for -650 for 5SX= or -500 for 6CX-2

Though in reality declarer finesse the wrong side for the ♥Q
(obviously a major blunder, but he was just a beginner)

So the other question is : what would you do over 3♠ with this hand?