[the hog]

There has been some discussion recently about Good/Bad. I would be very interested in knowing which of the following are used as G/B by posters here.

1H (1S) X (2S)
2N

1H (2S) X (P)
2N

1H (2S) P (P)
X (P) 2N - though I would describe this as Lebensohl rather than G/B


1H (1S) 2C* (2S)
X (P) 2N

Case 1 2C = nf
Case 2 2C = forcing


1H (1S) 2C* (2S)
2N (P)

Case 1 2C = nf
Case 2 2C = forcing

For what it is worth, in my partnerships all of the above are G/B, whether you call the Leb example G/B or not. Are there any further cases that people use?

[mike777]

For me 2nt applies by both responder and opener.
1) For responder 2nt as Good-Bad is on when RHO's last bid was at the two level and it was not a direct/immediate overcall of openers first bid. I hope that makes sense.
2) For opener 2nt Good-Bad is on when responder has made some call other than pass and RHO's last bid was at the two level.
3) Good-Bad 2nt is never on as an overcaller.

As we have seen many forum posters differ strongly from this and the book write ups are confusing at best.

I note even the Bridge Encyclopedia has a confusing write up and states that others play it differently than how the Encyclopedia defines it.

[000002]

1H (1S) X (2S)
2N
this is 6♥ 4minor-suit combo;dbl is good hand only


1H (1S) 2C* (2S)
X (P) 2N -------------****------------Case 1 2C = nf
natural 2NT ,deny ♦ suit ,ofcz, it's minimum.

1H (1S) 2C* (2S)
2N (P)---------*************-------Case 2 2C = forcing
this 2nt is an convention as ur habit to use it.
if u ask me what is my option, i will tell me-self the singleton ♠ and tell u that the god is living.


regards 000002

[FrancesHinden]

The_Hog, on Jan 7 2007, 06:34 AM, said:

There has been some discussion recently about Good/Bad. I would be very interested in knowing which of the following are used as G/B by posters here.

1H (1S) X (2S)
2N

1H (2S) X (P)
2N

1H (2S) P (P)
X (P) 2N - though I would describe this as Lebensohl rather than G/B


1H (1S) 2C* (2S)
X (P) 2N

Case 1 2C = nf
Case 2 2C = forcing


1H (1S) 2C* (2S)
2N (P)

Case 1 2C = nf
Case 2 2C = forcing

For what it is worth, in my partnerships all of the above are G/B, whether you call the Leb example G/B or not. Are there any further cases that people use?

I play in two regular partnerships. One would say we "don't play" g/b, although one of your suggested auctions we would say is "lebensohl" which has the same result. In the other, we do play it, but only
i) when the strength of the hand bidding is undefined, and
ii) when 2NT is not needed as a natural call (more debatable than the first)

1H (1S) X (2S)
2N

Pshp 1: natural, strong
Pshp 2: good/bad (actually, reverse g/b: weak with clubs or good with a red suit)

1H (2S) X (P)
2N

Both partnerships: natural, weak

1H (2S) P (P)
X (P) 2N

Both partnerships: lebensohl


1H (1S) 2C* (2S)
X (P) 2N

Both partnerships: natural (2C was f1, I've never played it nf). If 2C was FG (e.g. 1S p 2c 2s) then double is penalties and 2NT doesn't really exist.

1H (1S) 2C* (2S)
2N (P)

2C f1
Partnership 1: natural, strong
Partnership 2: (reverse) g/b

Here are some other lebensohl auctions we do play, however:

1C (2S) 2NT (partnership 1 only, in auctions such as 1s (2H) we play transfers)

And by the overcalling side:
(1H) x (2H) 2NT
(1H) 1S (2H) 2NT
(1NT) 2H (2S) 2NT
but
(1S) 2H (2S) 2NT is a good raise (2NT is a good raise when you can't cuebid below 3 of partner's suit)

[whereagles]

> 1H (1S) X (2S)
> 2N
>
> 1H (2S) X (P)
> 2N
>
> 1H (2S) P (P)
> X (P) 2N

Yes, good-bad (or Lebenshol if you prefer).


> 1H (1S) 2C* (2S)
> X (P) 2N
>
> Case 1 2C = nf
> Case 2 2C = forcing
>
> 1H (1S) 2C* (2S)
> 2N (P)
>
> Case 1 2C = nf
> Case 2 2C = forcing

I play case 2, in which case it's not good-bad but natural (both auctions). However, I must say I never gave these auctions sufficient attention to check whether good-bad is a better tool.

[Winstonm]

We use good/bad any time the opponents have bid and raised their same suit, therefore showing an expected 8-card or better fit - the thinking being that if the opps have this fit and know it we don't often want to play nt. It can apply to either opener or responder.

1C-1S-X-2S
2N
G/B

1C-1S-2H-2S
P- P-2N
G/B

2N initiates competetive actions
Direct bids are better hands

[000002]

1C-1S-2H-2S
P- P-2N
G/B


i take this 2nt 3cards ♣ and 6cards ♥.


regards 000002

[Winstonm]

000002, on Jan 7 2007, 10:57 AM, said:

1C-1S-2H-2S
P- P-2N
G/B


i take  this 2nt 3cards ♣  and 6cards ♥.


regards  000002

We believe it more important to determine when we are competing verses bidding to make game or higher, as the free 2/1 bid in competition is no longer game forcing and could be shaded to as little as a good 9-count.

Therefore, it can be important to know in the auction: 1C-1S-2H-2S-P-P-2N/3H

whether responder holds: x, AKQxxx, xxx, xxx and is simply competing or if he hold: x, AKxxxx, Axx, Qxx and is forcing to game.

[FrancesHinden]

Winstonm, on Jan 7 2007, 04:19 PM, said:

We believe it more important to determine when we are competing verses bidding to make game or higher, as the free 2/1 bid in competition is no longer game forcing and could be shaded to as little as a good 9-count.

Therefore, it can be important to know in the auction: 1C-1S-2H-2S-P-P-2N/3H

whether responder holds: x, AKQxxx, xxx, xxx and is simply competing or if he hold: x, AKxxxx, Axx, Qxx and is forcing to game.

I agree there is some merit in g/b here (if only because it's not that useful as natural), but it's not as simple as you say.

3S shows game force that doesn't know where to go (or is too strong to bid something natural and forcing).
3suit shows a hand that's just competing.

You don't lose out that much by not playing g/b.

[Winstonm]

FrancesHinden, on Jan 7 2007, 01:24 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Jan 7 2007, 04:19 PM, said:

We believe it more important to determine when we are competing verses bidding to make game or higher, as the free 2/1 bid in competition is no longer game forcing and could be shaded to as little as a good 9-count.

Therefore, it can be important to know in the auction: 1C-1S-2H-2S-P-P-2N/3H

whether responder holds: x, AKQxxx, xxx, xxx and is simply competing or if he hold: x, AKxxxx, Axx, Qxx and is forcing to game.

I agree there is some merit in g/b here (if only because it's not that useful as natural), but it's not as simple as you say.

3S shows game force that doesn't know where to go (or is too strong to bid something natural and forcing).
3suit shows a hand that's just competing.

You don't lose out that much by not playing g/b.

True, because the bottom range of responder's bid is better known, much different than: 1C-1S-X-2S where the doubler can have little up to game forcing values.

Still, there is value (because natural seems low priority) to using 2N to separate values even in 1C-1S-2H-2S-P-P-2N

With a hand such as xx, AQJxx, xx, Kxxx it is useful to be able to bid 2N for a competitive 3C bid than bid 3C directly which would be forcing.

[000002]

Honorific Gentleman winstonm:
i take this 2nt as a transfer ♣ fit,because i found we are frequent to hold a hand with 2key card on ♥ and the length is 6.for instance,following hand is "typical":
xx
AKxxxx
Axx
xx
with this hand,we usually seek 3nt in the priority,but i find it's too difficult to show this hand,unless a technical convention prepared for.
if i get dealt an more flat hand (than this 2key card on ♥),i should take a cooperation DBL instead of conventional-3♣,or, bid 2nt transfer 3♣.

i think it's the most frequent hand based on the fact:2♥ overcall ,and a game-try intention after opener's 2♠-pass.


regards 000002

[pclayton]

For me and Harvey - only the 1st and last, and many wouldnt it in the last sequence.

[Winstonm]

000002, on Jan 7 2007, 09:20 PM, said:

Honorific Gentleman winstonm:
          i take this 2nt as a transfer ♣ fit,because i found we are frequent to hold a hand with 2key card on ♥ and the length is 6.for instance,following hand is "typical":
          xx
          AKxxxx
          Axx
          xx
          with this hand,we usually seek 3nt in the priority,but i find it's too difficult to show this hand,unless a technical convention prepared for.
          if i get dealt an more flat hand (than this 2key card on ♥),i should take a cooperation DBL instead of conventional-3♣,or, bid 2nt transfer 3♣.
         
          i think it's the most frequent hand based on the fact:2♥ overcall ,and a game-try intention after opener's 2♠-pass.


regards 000002

Yes, sir, we may have similar meanings, as when I say G/B I mean that partner is required after 2N to bid 3C, which would allow a non-forcing 3H bid with 6 hearts and less than game forcing values.