[jillybean]

Scoring: MP

(1♥) 2♣ (P) 2♠
(3♥) 3♠ (p) 4♠

---

lead Q♥ 4♠-4

Your thoughts on the auction please

[inquiry]

My thought is that we should take away what ever north was smoking when he/she imagined this hand as a 3♠ raise.

[neilkaz]

North makes the worst 2♣ overcall ever, and then raises with 2 cards support !!

The good news is that the opps with 19 HCP and 3 bullets didn't find a crushing double.

I have lighter standards than many do for 2 level overcalls, but no way would I do it here. I'd bid 3♣ unless Red at MPs.

Anyhow, the 3♠ bid is absurd.

After the 3♠ bid South's bid of game is a bit pushy as well since the ♥ may be useless and the stiff ace in PD's suit isn't awesome, and 3♠ could simply be competing if you play that when there is no in between suit for a generic game try, that a double is a game try.

However, S is entitled to find another spade and an ace more in N's hand, so one cannot really criticize the 4♠ bid.

.. neilkaz ..

[whereagles]

neilkaz, on Dec 23 2006, 02:00 AM, said:

North makes the worst 2♣ overcall ever, and then raises with 2 cards support !!

Sorry, the spade raise is nuts, but the 2♣ overcall is completely correct.

[neilkaz]

whereagles, on Dec 22 2006, 08:20 PM, said:

neilkaz, on Dec 23 2006, 02:00 AM, said:

North makes the worst 2♣ overcall ever, and then raises with 2 cards support !!

Sorry, the spade raise is nuts, but the 2♣ overcall is completely correct.

We have different standards for 2 level overcalls and although I upgrade for a really good suit and like an onside K, I still prefer 3♣ here, although I hav eto admit that this isn't the worst 2♣ overcall ever.

Speaking of overcalls, I routinely overcall at the 2 level when I have a reasonable 5 carder and a sound opening, while some others here require a better suit. I don't think I was badly hurt once this year doing that...anyhow..I see your point regarding this hand's strength in ♣, but it has little defence and looks like a White 3♣ opening preempt to me.

I may have different standards for 3 level overcall preempts as well. I preempt to take bidding space away from the opps. I can see where this may cause a bad 5♣ sac from PD with my K of ♥ often onside, but at other times the opps don't have a ♥ fit and play in the wrong place or compete to 3♥ and are unsure about continuing to game since the 3♥ bid could be a bit of a stretch.

Anyhow, none of this takes away from how poor the 3♠ bid with this junk is, and if simply playing casually in MBC, this would be the last hand of the session for me with this PD. I remain surprised that no penalty double occured here.

.. neilkaz ..

[the hog]

Our auction would have been a 3C bid if nv and all pass.

Had we overcalled 2C, a likely scenario would have been 2H cue then 3C. I don't think this S suit is really worth introducing. The most likely game for our side, if there is one, is 3NT.

On your auction, Kathryn, if 2S is nf I would have passed that, else I would have bid 3C.

[jillybean]

inquiry, on Dec 22 2006, 06:45 PM, said:

My thought is that we should take away what ever north was smoking when he/she imagined this hand as a 3♠ raise.

lol I just thought I was sticking my neck out, being 'competitive'
I see we need to discuss bidding after overcalls

Why 3♣ here and not 2?

[jillybean]

OK my overcalls have always been a little doubtful but I do not understand what sort of hand my partner needs to introduce a new suit. After I have overcalled (2♣ here love it or hate it) haven’t I said my bit and if my partner is going to introduce a new suit shouldn’t it be very sound, 6+ ?

[Robert]

Hi Jillybeans2

Mike Lawrence wrote a book on overcalls that might be a help in finding your overcall style. He not only outlines what is his idea of an overcall, he also shows how to respond to an overcall. Even if you do not like his entire approach, you might find out some good ideas in his book.

Even if partner showed a 6+ card suit(and many people besides myself would only be showing 5+ cards) why would you raise after bidding a 9HCP overcall with 'xx' for your support? If the 2S bid is as good as your suit(KQJ10xx) your partner can compete over the 3H bid.

Support with support is a very good bidding style. Sometimes pass is a superior bid 'when' you do not have the values to bid at the three level. This overcall of 2Cs does not have any extra values. I would have bid 3Cs with the same hand.

Hi everyone

This is a clear 3C bid in my methods. I do play that unusual doubles and some 3NT* calls show hands that suggest bidding higher in many auctions 'only if' your hand is suitable. Sometimes I get dealt seven card suits, however, I like to be able to show decent 6 carders given the chance. Partner should not hang me 'if' these bidding methods are in use.

Regards,
Robert

[sdoty]

jillybean2, on Dec 23 2006, 12:55 AM, said:

After I have overcalled (2♣ here love it or hate it) haven’t I said my bit and if my partner is going to introduce a new suit shouldn’t it be very sound, 6+ ?

2-level non-jump overcalls aren't so much "let's get the the way of the opponents" bids in the way that a weak jump overcall would be -- they're constructive for your side. The 1H opening by the opponents doesn't preclude this from being your hand, either in a making partscore or occasionally in a game contract. If advancer needed to have a good 6 card suit to introduce it, the partnership would miss a lot of excellent contracts. Whether or not he'll introduce a 4 card major over a 2minor overcall is something you might want to talk about, but a 5 card suit is certainly enough.

The 2C bidder could hold a hand like:
♠AQ10 ♥A73 ♦5 ♣KQ9842

or
♠KQ53 ♥4 ♦103 ♣KQJ963

Even something with more modest in spade support ... say
♠A53 ♥K6 ♦86 ♣KQJ963

a spade game is still possible opposite a hand like
♠KQ1076 ♥98 ♦AK92 ♣52

Most of the time you won't have hands that want to play in game, but finding a spade fit so that you can compete to 3S is valuable in itself.

Susan

[pclayton]

GREETINGS FROM LAX.

I wont comment on 3S' except to say its hideous.

As far as 2C vs 3C I dont agree with my prodigal friend. The hand is a tweener, but ask yourself this. If 3C can be made on a hand like xxx xx xx KQJxxx, but 2C can be made on as much as x Axx AKx KQJxxx, is 2C or 3C closer to the truth.

[Winstonm]

Put me in the 3-club camp. I prefer the slightly "heavy" premept to the "undervalued" 2/1 overcall. If you maintain the integrity of the 2-level overcalls, subsequent bidding is easier. The second thing to point out is that the shape of 6332 is not good, reducing further the value of the club hand.

As for responders bid, I came to the conclusion that for my style of play it should be a 1-round force - others play it differently. But even then it is quetionable whether this hand is worth a bid over a 2C overcall. The spade suit isn't good and the QJx of hearts should be counted as virtually worthless and no club fit - game seems remote so a pass of 2C isn't unreasonable at all.