[Echognome]

I have nothing against Raptor. I only mentioned that 1NT would not be raptor because I wasn't playing it. I think it's fair enough to say something like "I would pass given your methods, but that's why I play raptor." But, answer however you like.

[Blofeld]

Robert,

Your use of inverted commas for emphasis (at least I assume that's why you're using them) comes across as rather snobbish and patronising, as though the debate were beneath you.

You can use italics, bold, underlined, or *starred* text for emphasis (or even UPPER CASE, though that needs a degree of care or it looks like you're shouting the whole time). But 'inverted commas' are traditionally for when you don't want to commit to using the term, either because you don't fully understand it or you don't approve of it.

At any rate, I found your post patronising, but when I analysed why I did so I realised that this was one of the major reasons. If you could stop using inverted commas I'd be really grateful.

Thanks,
Owen

[hrothgar]

Robert, on Dec 10 2006, 08:17 AM, said:

Hi everyone

I answered just like inquiry did.  I drew an attack from hrothgar and inquiry did not.

I wasn't attacking you or Ben. I was responding to a a specific point that had cropped up during the discussion. Your post happened to have been the last in the thread so it was the one that I responded to. I would have been equally happy making precisely the same point about Ben's post and I have criticized his postings on these grounds in the past. Yesterday you were "lucky" enough to draw the boobie prize.

Part of the reason that I find this style of posting so annoying is that you (and Ben) normally has interesting things to say in the bidding forums. I would have liked to see your thought processes about the relative merits of bididng 1NT with a single Ace as opposed to bidding a miserable Diamond suit at the two level or passing and somehow hoping to catch up in the bidding. (Some folks might even consider a Michaels cue bid). There are a lot of different ways to bid this hand and a lot of different arguments that can be advanced. Referencing the existence of a convention that most of us already know about isn't one of them.

I'd be very happy to see a discussion about the merits and drawbacks of Raptor compared to a natural NT overcall. We might even get Fred to comment, since he doesn't think that Raptor is particularly useful. However, if we're going to have this discussion we probably want a wide ranging talk about the best way to design a comprehensive system of overcalls. In turn, we can then judge how well the system handles a wide variety of different hands, intervention by the opponents and the like.

[Free]

I agree with Richard on this one: it's clear that the topic starter wants a natural response. Everyone knows that IF you play raptor it's a no-brainer. IF you play FREEWILL overcalls, it's a no-brainer either. IF you play powerdoubles from 15HCP up, again it's easy. You can make up new systems and use that as well, like the "pull a bid out of my ass 2♦" . The problem is: what do you bid if you're playing natural, normal stuff, which is NOT designed for this type of hands.
If he wanted to know if you're playing raptor, for sure he would've included a "1NT (raptor)"-option, which would obviously destroy the entire purpose of this poll...

I pass, with 1NT as a close second.

[dake50]

My 2D implies H, else why bid? So 2D, hoping for 2S asking S-stop and 3NT.

[inquiry]

inquiry, on Dec 9 2006, 11:34 AM, said:

1NT Raptor (so I voted other). These hands are why I play raptor.... so that my doubles are shape specific or true-monsters....

Ok, under the guise that I am not allowed raptor under the other option....

Not 2♦ = the suit is far to anemic
Not 2♥ = four card overcalls at the two level are not something I try to do very often
Not Double = I am not a fan of equal level conversion. And I am a huge fan of shape specific doubles, which this is not.
Not Pass = how can I pass with this good of a hand? I will never be able to catch up.
Not 2♠ = come on, this is not a michaels cue-bid hand, give me a break

So, by process of elimination, I will overcall 1NT playing raptor or not.

[mr1303]

My style is usually to bid 1NT here, and have the auction go something like:

(1S) 1NT (X) 2C
(X)

and sneak off to the bar whilst partner goes several off.

I have a feeling that pass might be a better option.

[the hog]

To the Raptor bidders - even if you could bid Raptor here, this hand is too good for it.
Robert, lighten up. I enjoy the banter as do most posters.

[Robert]

Hi Blofeld

If the debate were beneath me, I would not respond.

I have learned quite a bit on this forum even if the posts are greatly uneven in their value. Many of the posts differ from my view of bridge, however, that does not mean that they are wrong or bad. If it is snobbish and patronising to select my own bidding style, I am guilty as charged.

I also believe everyone picks a style and that most(non LOLs) people change over the years.

I do use the inverted commas for emphasis. I have been doing so for several decades now, I doubt that it will soon change. Only time will tell.

Why would it be patronising to contribute to a post? You also posted on this forum and are instructing me on how I should 'not' use inverted commas? If I may be so bold, who gave you authority to instruct me on how to write my post?

I was under the impresion that CAPS were a form of shouting and that was to be avoided 'if' you did not mean to shout.

Would you mind explaining why you think that inverted commas are both snobbish and patronising?

I also use faces and they are not snobbish or patronising. At least I hope so, I do tend to overuse the symbol, however, I think that I am getting somewhat better in this area.

Hi hrothgar

If you only attack the last posting. I could see that your attack was not just against me. Standing in the target zone seems to be the 'hot seat' at that time.
That use of "Robert" also made it appear that I was 'smack' in the middle of a live fire zone.

Thanks for the comment about interesting posts from both Ben and Robert. Apparently some(many?) think my posts are both snobbish and patronising.

I would freely admit that I have often(over the years) overcalled a strong NT with a singleton in some unbid suit. I have of late attempted to play Raptor because it seemed to deal with a difficult(impossible?) hand type.

Edgar Kaplan established certain ideas in my bidding style. I like a heavy 1NT overcall normally 16+-19HCP.

Bidding that diamond suit would never happen. I want my partner is play me for a 6+ card suit when I overcall at the two level. Some very strong five card suits do sometimes happen, however, only with extra values.

My Michaels bids are always 5-5(+), never on 4-5 or 5-4 shapes.

I am aware that Fred does not like Raptor. I play many non standard bids and Raptor is only one of them. My style has changed a great deal of the years and I might yet drop Raptor for a strong NT.

Thank you for the explanation and your kind comments,

Regards,
Robert

[Robert]

Hi Hog

After I get up off of the floor, I also enjoy banter.

I joined in a couple of early comments to Jlall before someone PMed me that he was a junior world champion.

It did not change my comments, either he is right or he is wrong and being a world champion does not change my view. Many(most?) of his posts are very good, I still have not decided why he wants to overcall what many players would make a jump overcall on the same hand.

I would post an example of one of my white vs red jump overcalls, however, children or people with weak hearts might very well suffer grave damage 'if' they viewed one of the examples.

I play a fairly solid overcall style at the two level, this example hand is not nearly a 2D bid in my style. That 'suit' is not going to be bid in my partnership 'unless' I am playing my range of Raptor 1NT overcalls.

My Raptor range has not been frozen in concrete quite yet as I am new to Raptor.
It will be slightly higher than most play the convention of that I am 'quite' sure.

Regards,
Robert

[the hog]

Hi Robert, we had many discussions on another BB about a year ago. I for one do not find your posts patronizing, snobbish or boring. I find that they are incorrect when they don't agree with my world view but that is a different story.
I still think this is too good for a Raptor. I played Polish NT, or Raptor, a lot and I do like it. Like every convention.....when the right hand comes up.....

[Winstonm]

Quote

Not Pass = how can I pass with this good of a hand? I will never be able to catch up.

To me this is the heart of the debate, not whether there is a specific convention that shows this shape (although it's fine to mention it along with everything else, imo). But I don't see this as all that great of hand. First, almost 1/2 of my HCPs are outside my longest suits, my spade holding lengthwise is poor, and my club ace is diminished in value because it is a singleton - much better to hold Ax if partner has QJx - and my long suit is ragged. I don't see this as much better than a 13-count hand - not something to get excited about.

But I wonder why the bidders consider this hand too good to pass. As a NT overcall, I hold not only the bottom end of the range but misshape as well.
2D is about right on HCPs but the suit is awful and I have strong support for the other major, so why emphasize a bad diamond suit? A normal takeout double does not apply so that is ruled out. This hand will really only be of value if we have a diamond or a heart fit, but it will be useful on defense against an opposing contract. My 3-spades suggest the opponents may not have a spade fit, which reduces my side's chances of having a fit. On a bad day, this hand might not take more than 3 or 4 offensive tricks.

I still see way more downside on this hand than possible upside.

[FrancesHinden]

I pass without thinking this a particularly difficult call. Make a small diamond a club and I would bid 1NT, but I still wouldn't object to a pass, particularly if partner were a passed hand.

[Robert]

Hi Hog

I remember our exhanges. You directed me to the Australian Bridge Magazine bidding quiz forum.

Robin Cross was my 'name' there until recently, they asked for a picture from the leaders in the bidding quiz and I had to explain the use of a 'pen name.' I will be switching to Robert starting with the next quiz if I understood their message correctly. What is that old expression finishing second is like kissing your sister?

When I find that most of the people in a room(group) agree with me, I tend think about exiting stage left. It makes me nervous when a group agrees with the majority of my ideas.

It would be a heavy Raptor 'if' the standard range for Raptor is used. I am new to Raptor and whatever range I decide on will be determined by future testing.

Regards,
Robert

[Halo]

1NT

Most of the arguments have already been made. I'd add that I expect the opponents to make it harder to bid on the second round than it is now.

[GeeGee]

I doubled, but with real qualms. If p bids 2♣ then I pass, pretending to move one of my Spades away from the clubs where I had accidentally got it mixed in. In fact, if p calls anything at the two level, I pass and go to get the coffee.