[uday]

The next version of the BBO program, Version 3.5.3, is available.

Please note:

a) This is not the official release; it is a pre-release version, and we're hoping you'll help us find all the remaining bugs. When we're ready, we'll automatically update each customers version of BBO as they login.

Do not download this version if you are not familiar with computers, are going to have problems backing out to the prior version, or are going to be annoyed if you find a bug.

c) The readme is at http://www.bridgebas...a353/readme.txt

d) If you want to preserve the older version, rename c:bridge base onlinenetbridgevu.exe to something like oldver.exe and use this to login with 3.5.1

e) Report issues with the beta in the forums...we've setup a beta353 thread in
Bridge Base Forums / Bridge Base Online Discussion / Suggestions for the Software

f) The upgrade is at www.bridgebase.com/beta353/bbo_update.exe

g) The full setup is at www.bridgebase.com/beta353/bbo_setup.exe

[keylime]

When editing the friends list, got trap errors after removing and accepting....anyone else?

Uday: Confirmed. If you remove a friend from your friends list, you will crash shortly after, as you mouse around over the list of usernames. Thanks, D.

[keylime]

2nd issue: At times at the bidding table, when you manually click in the bidding, there is a lag of 15-20 seconds for the bid for West-East to appear. I do not know if that is net related or not, but was experienced by both players.

[csdenmark]

Looks fairly good but sorry that the most needed features was not added:

• Ability to inform via 'conditions of contest'
  
• Ability to create invitional tourney's

I am looking forward to web-site link as you have announced for the private club. The info for the club before apply for membership is OK but else it looks like there have been not much improvements for the private clubs.

As you have noticed from a recent discussion - I am one of those annoyed of the missing facility to enforce use of convention cards. Others like Rays Bridge Ladder and the Polish Team League will take the same position I assume.

[uday]

I'm sure there are plenty of things that didnt make it into the beta, but

a) What did you mean by "Invitational" tourneys?
We have added the infrastructure to allow us to add conditions of contest without requiring a new client. That is, we could add "Upload conditions of contest" to the same area as "upload hands for tourney" with only server-side changes. So we're partway there.

[csdenmark]

Hi Uday!

Not much from this list in your new client as far as I can see. This list was provided you in the thread you started yourself in order to have proposals from the users especially for enhancing the performance of the private club facility you earlier has informed you dont use yourself and therefore need to rely on proposals from outside. I have tried to do so and you see here:

http://forums.bridgebase.com/in...msg7762#msg7762
+
http://forums.bridgebase.com/in...msg7940#msg7940

It is today really hard to use a private club for anything else than a simple and not very handy mailing list.

I think the private club feature has been created and not very much used and due to that deeply thoughts about the topic has never really been on agenda. Fair enough if so - but is it going to stay so or has time come to take some kind of action?

[csdenmark]

Quote

We have added the infrastructure to allow us to add conditions of contest without requiring a new client. That is, we could add "Upload conditions of contest" to the same area as "upload hands for tourney" with only server-side changes. So we're partway there.

I will be completely satisfied with a web-site link facility!

[Gerardo]

Claus, please be a bit patient.
As you see, the invitational tourneys definition is MUCH improved in the beta, and I think the right approach was taken on Conditions of Contest uploading, I think it will be a breeze when implemented, and without client uploading, which is a hassle.
But the programmer time is limited, and the suggestions and to do list is long (I know, I have my own longish list).

[fred]

Quote

When editing the friends list, got trap errors after removing and accepting....anyone else?

Uday: Confirmed. If you remove a friend from your friends list, you will crash shortly after, as you mouse around over the list of usernames. Thanks, D.

Thanks for reporting this, Dwayne.

I have fixed this problem, but the fix will not take
effect until the next version is released. Hard to say
when this will be - could be later today and may not
be for several days. Depends on things like how many
other bugs are found, their severity, their status...

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[csdenmark]

Quote

Claus, please be a bit patient.
As you see, the invitational tourneys definition is MUCH improved in the beta, and I think the right approach was taken on Conditions of Contest uploading, I think it will be a breeze when implemented, and without client uploading, which is a hassle.
But the programmer time is limited, and the suggestions and to do list is long (I know, I have my own longish list).

I am very much patient Gerardo - no problem! But Uday asked for some kind of definition of invitional tourney's. I have tried to explain - and I will be ready to do more but as such will quick be in technical terms it will not be suited for a general Forum like this. I really think it is a feature which will be very important for understanding across borderlines of culture and systems. Therefore I am very much on alert that such is to come.

I am unable to see any attempt of such in the beta-version - please help me! If there is such then it may be a good solution. I am completely open for everything but you know - if you have fixed on a certain kind of solution - you will often be unable to see other kind of openings. - So for me right now I think - so please help!

My comment about web-site link for 'conditions of contest' was only to try to be helpful with a full-good and to me who have web-sites I think best solution to the problem. I am not that good at english - but I read Uday's comment as something about missing server capacity. I thought a web-site link would eliminate that need.

[Gerardo]

Well, you can now include various types of players (friends, same language, same country, specific level(s), private club) and exclude enemies.
Besides that, you can include/exclude a custom list of people.

[csdenmark]

Quote

Well, you can now include various types of players (friends, same language, same country, specific level(s), private club) and exclude enemies.
Besides that, you can include/exclude a custom list of people.

Thank you Gerardo - I have private enemies but when I act on behalf of Precision Club my only aim is building bridges. There my private enemies are accepted too of course.

Invitional tourney's means fx. we have 10 italian pairs playing precision wanting to meet 10 polish pairs playing polish club. Trying to understand the different cultures in general but also the very different approaches for alerting.

Another example might be to test 'Viking Precision Club'(a precision relay champion system) against 'Meckwell Club' (a precision non-relay champion system)

My immediate outcry is based on the interpretation of below quote that this update of the client is specifically aimed to improve performance for clubs and tournaments. I know several of the the modifications will solve problems for many but really not for me. I have no problems with rude people etc. I want to see something which can contribute to the fun and to the enhancement of skills.

If this was the update focussing on private clubs - thats what I fear - then it is needed to say: We did not get much of what we had hoped for!

----------------------------------------------------------

Quote

I want suggestions for tourneys and private clubs individually. Or together.

In my view the private clubs are being misused somewhat; creating a private club solely for the purpose of restricting entry to tourneys, for instance, is a waste. We're addressing this particular issue by allowing the tourney host to maintain his own list of users on his own PC, and passing that list to the server during the creation of a tourney.

What else is a private club good for? Do they need to be able to run tourneys "inside" the private club, so that they are invisible to all others? What are the limitations and annoyances with administering private clubs?

Some thoughts I have here are:

- Allow for more information to be listed about a private club, including a club URL

- Specify contact information for administration.

- Supply mechanisms to send messages to all club members online , offline or both (ie, send now if online, else send offline). Allow this to be invoked by club managers as well as (option of manager) club members

- Allow for multiple managers of a private club

- Allow teaching tables to upload more than one hand at a time

- Allow public clubs to bar members from the public club


More radical thoughts are

- allow managers to charge their members for entry to private clubs
- allow hosts to charge their players for entry to their tourneys
- offer "home" pages for private and public clubs on a bbo webserver, complete with forums, mailing lists, etc (maybe not for free, if we have to pay per club)



But what else is needed in teaching tables? I dont use them myself, so i'm not too familar with them (of course, FG is comfy w/them, to say the least)

[fred]

Quote

Quote

Well, you can now include various types of players (friends, same language, same country, specific level(s), private club) and exclude enemies.
Besides that, you can include/exclude a custom list of people.

Thank you Gerardo - I have private enemies but when I act on behalf of Precision Club my only aim is building bridges. There my private enemies are accepted too of course.

Invitional tourney's means fx. we have 10 italian pairs playing precision wanting to meet 10 polish pairs playing polish club. Trying to understand the different cultures in general but also the very different approaches for alerting.

Another example might be to test 'Viking Precision Club'(a precision relay champion system) against 'Meckwell Club' (a precision non-relay champion system)

My immediate outcry is based on the interpretation of below quote that this update of the client is specifically aimed to improve performance for clubs and tournaments. I know several of the the modifications will solve problems for many but really not for me. I have no problems with rude people etc. I want to see something which can contribute to the fun and to the enhancement of skills.

If this was the update focussing on private clubs - thats what I fear - then it is needed to say: We did not get much of what we had hoped for!

----------------------------------------------------------

Sorry to disappoint you. We read all the suggestions
that people made and tried to implement those that
we thought would be most useful (complication of
implementation is also a factor).

The time and effort it would take for Uday and me to
implement things like your "Precision vs. Polish Club"
example would be far from trivial. Given that I consider
this request to be "obscure" (ie for every tournament
of this nature there will be 1000 tournaments that use
our existing formats), in my view it would be a huge
waste of our limited resources to work on things like this.

Please keep in mind that we will spend most of our
time working on what our "average members want".

You are a valuable member of the BBO community,
Claus, but you are not one of our average members.

You said this yourself: "I know several of the the
modifications will solve problems for many but really
not for me."

Do you really think solving your problems should
be a higher priority for us than solving the problems
of the many you refer to?

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[csdenmark]

Quote

Do you really think solving your problems should
be a higher priority for us than solving the problems
of the many you refer to?

Dear Fred - I have no intensions trying to interfere with your prioriticing resources - of course not. You do so best yourself. What I try to do is only hoping to be helpful making suggestions I think will be to the benefit for many. Suggestions to the benefit for me and a few others only - you will never have from me!

Making suggestions I try to take advantage from my former professional capacity regarding creativity/inventions and organization/automatization. Therefore it sometimes might cause problems for several to understand the meaning and my intensions in initial stages.

Quote

Please keep in mind that we will spend most of our
time working on what our "average members want".

Certainly - just think of the discussions we often have here about alert culture, language skills, dealing with rudenes etc. All topics you can do nothing with unless meeting of people across the borderlines are to take place.

Please take a look at the team tournament area: 'Argentina meet the world', 'USA vs. rest' etc. Invitional small tournaments all. I think many of those complaining to be forced(sucked without options to say no) into a tourney really are those small team tourney's. They simply need all to be able to sign up in the same way as you do to pair-tourney's and the game to be carried out in a format somewhat similar to that of team tourney's.

[Gerardo]

Claus:
Of course, but right now I put rude people on enemies, and having a separate list would be useful.
I usually have no restrictions when I run tourneys, but keeping rude people (and possibly chronic bad conns) would be nice

[keylime]

Some kudos -

1. The intraBBO mail and invites are much more "customer friendly" - the ability to send an immediate reply to the mail is a very nice touch.

2. The amount of latency to enter a private club is much more diminished than before.

3. The new tourney add-ons are excellent, especially the eliminator format (imagine that in real life - that would be entertaining, take note ACBL!)

Some concerns -

1. The login time to get into the service is slower, this maybe due to net conditions or the server not quite getting it all together.

2. The bidding table, great functionality, but continued lag with the opps' bidding - might be by designed to simulate "thinking", don't know.

3. Lesson hands are losing the bidding, per Cascade's comments.

4. Maybe it's me, but it seems to run a touch slower?

All in all, a progression - hope to see the client continue to gain practicallity.

[tenbrvc]

"In my view the private clubs are being misused somewhat; creating a private club solely for the purpose of restricting entry to tourneys, for instance, is a waste. We're addressing this particular issue by allowing the tourney host to maintain his own list of users on his own PC, and passing that list to the server during the creation of a tourney."

Don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but I really like this idea.

I can see the possibility of creating multiple lists, which may allow you to share one of more of these lists with other directors (by sending the file on yourself by email, for instance).

I would like to see this feature incorporated when creating private chat rooms also. :-)

Bridge Base is getting better all the time with all the continuing changes and improvements. Keep up the fine work!

[csdenmark]

Today I had 2 applicants for our Precision Club. Those have now been rather difficult to handle. The table button now opens over the offline message and I can no longer read the message which also no longer can be in background. I now need writing that info down manually before I open table for adding.

When I added those persons - the table description for the club disappeared. I have now created a file containing that info so I can upload a new one every time I need to do administration.

Today I had the first person who I needed to cancel membership for because he wanted to opt out from club messages. Now he can no longer access the club area or register for club events.

[fred]

Quote

Today I had 2 applicants for our Precision Club. Those have now been rather difficult to handle. The table button now opens over the offline message and I can no longer read the message which also no longer can be in background. I now need writing that info down manually before I open table for adding.

When I added those persons - the table description for the club disappeared. I have now created a file containing that info so I can upload a new one every time I need to do administration.

I have no idea whether you intend to improve the administrative procedures for the clubs, such is needed - but if so I think you will have a hard time programming. To lift the administrative jobs out of the client will enable us to rely on standard software for Windows and for Internet - but that is impossible inside the client.

Today I had the first person who I needed to cancel membership for because he wanted to opt out from club messages. Now he can no longer access the club area or register for club events. This problem will no doubt increase if the announced club merge is to take place. Then selective features will be much needed.

Thanks for letting me know about the description
disappearing. That is a bug which I have fixed, but
you will continue to have this problem until the next
version is released (probably this weekend some time).

In the mean time, you can save yourself the trouble
of having to reenter (or cut and paste) the description
every time you add a new member, by making a slight
change to the description and then undoing it (such
as adding and then deleting a random character).

We are currently working on improving the way that
the software deals with membership requests for
private club managers. I am not sure when this will
be done (likely within a week). These changes will
not depend on a new version of the client.

I suggest you keep your programming suggestions
and evaluations of how difficult it is for us to do
various things to yourself. It sounds like you have
some programming experience, but it also sounds
like you have no idea what you are talking about when
it comes to the architecture of the BBO software or
how we accompish various things.

Right now the only way to send mass BBO-mail
messages is to a list of members of a private club.
We could easily add a facility for sending mail
messages to an arbitrary list, but I doubt that we
are going to do that. Why? Because BBO-mail spam
is already a problem (as the ex-member of your
club apparently understands). The last thing we
need right now is for there to be another aspect
of the software that requires policing.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[hallway]

I for one am like a kid with a new toy today as I explore what I can and cannot do.

I LOVE my sending mail buttons

Sorry to all those folk who got 'frozen' as I put them to the test :-[ seems like sending out a mass mailing to approx 2000 is not a good idea at the moment. BUT it worked a treat ! I have promised Uday to be good today and just settle for using the Chat to (all members online) which is a positive treasure . I used it a short while ago and what I got back were all nice mail from members not a single demand from a non member wanting to join the tourney !! as the message cannot be seen by the Lobby . ;D

Ofcourse as is the case with all humans - 'the more we have the more we want' and so message to Uday - that friends/enemies thingy on my profile is great but it would be MAGIC if I could have one in the Club Table facility - then I could split the membership into sections and then the various 'groups' would not get what amounts to Club Spam

But both he and Fred know where I stand on this - I have had to keep reminding them as my Wish List went from 9 pages to 17 pages to ......... don't know

I ASK - I DO NOT EXPECT
if I do not Ask - I cannot hope !!

I am glad the case of the missing Club profiles has been solved - got an awful shock to find that so carfully worded document (which I had not saved to my computer ) had vansihed .

I have noticed that Clubs without a profile have an applications form while those with a profile do not - wondered why I had been able to log in and out with gay abandon for 12 hours without a single application. When one has grown accostomed to an average 50 a day I was starting to get withdrawal symptoms

The Leave Mail Messages are a delight I can now park them anywhere I want and they follow me around until such time as I am ready to deal with them and as far as I can tell none have 'gone' wherever thay used to go . And with the reply window ready and waiting (no more having to type in weird and wonderful ID's and get Mail error then you have to try this that and the other > ) it's like getting one's Xmas cake early

There are some other things I know have been fixed but won't go live until the public release - the challenge then will be to retrain the brain not to use the work-arounds one dreams up.

Must get back to discovering what else I can find .
Thanks