[pigpenz]

saw advertisement saying the BBO was starting ACBL stratified games.
1.will games be based on acbl player number masterpoints
2.will it be based on BBO points
3.will it be based on ACBL ranking

I assume they will be based on stata of higher ranking player of the partnership
or as posted in the fourms "you can give the gift of ACBL master points for the holidays"

[uday]

There are no disadvantages to our stratified games (well, beyond the risk of a system crash caused by the new code!)

Under some circumstances, people would would have finished out of the money will now finish in the money. That is the advantage of stratification.


How will it work?

- only applies to pair games with 6+ tables
- as game starts, pairs will be sorted by stratification points (ACBL points if you have any, or a multiple of BBO points if you dont )
- field is then divided into 3 strata of equal size
- pairs are then divided into sections as usual, and each section-direction is assigned approximately the same number of players from each strata
- NS and EW in each section are then 'shuffled' to randomize starting position

[hrothgar]

uday, on Nov 17 2006, 01:52 AM, said:

There are no disadvantages to our stratified games (well, beyond the risk of a system crash caused by the new code!)

Under some circumstances, people would would have finished out of the money will now finish in the money. That is the advantage of stratification.


How will it work?

- only applies to pair games with 6+ tables
- as game starts, pairs will be sorted by stratification points (ACBL points if you have any, or a multiple of BBO points if you dont )
- field is then divided into 3 strata of equal size
- pairs are then divided into sections as usual, and each section-direction is assigned approximately the same number of players from each strata
- NS and EW in each section are then 'shuffled' to randomize starting position

Really none of my business, but...

Stratifying a 6 table tournament into three sections is a farce.
By definition, you're going to be giving masterpoints to half the field.

[pigpenz]

hrothgar, on Nov 16 2006, 06:12 PM, said:

Stratifying a 6 table tournament into three sections is a farce.
By definition, you're going to be giving masterpoints to half the field.

thas why the post referred to the post about the acbl web page where it said give the gift of acbl masterpoints for the holidays

but really randomly shuffling players into sections that have no bearing on seeding is well random craziness

would seem that the section size would need to determine how many A', B's, C's there are so that people play the same amount....or as the acbl web page says...give the gift of acbl master points

[uday]

We can split this into two threads if we wish

Thread1: we can all complain about how dumb it is that people buy masterpoints from the ACBL in Memphis.

Thread2: we can discuss the hows/whys of stratifieds


I'll tentatively assume that this is Thread2, and that Thread1 will find another home.


Stratified games are better (identical to current games except they issue more points) than the existing games. So I will offer them to the customers


Hrothgar, this is thread2

Pigpenz, perhaps my post was unclear. The random shuffling serves only to scramble the initial table numbers of the players in a section. The sections (and the strata within the sections) are already assigned at that point. Oh, and this is ...

[keylime]

What are the strats?

[uday]

A = top third of field
B = Middle third
C = lower third


Example : Lets say, for arguments sake, that exactly 30 pairs sign up. So we have 1 section, 15 NS pairs and 15 EW pairs. The field has 30 pairs and we'll have 10 As, 10 Bs, 10 Cs.

Lets say, again, for arguments sake, 10 pairs have at least one star, 10 have exactly 1000 ACBL MPs, and 10 have 100 ACBL mps.

The star pairs (top third) are put into A. The 1000-MP pairs into B. The 100-MP pairs into C.

The pairs are then divided evenly between NS and EW. So NS will have 5 stars, 5 1000-mps, 5 100-mps. Likewise EW.

Finally, the NS pairs are scrambled so the starting table for each pair is unpredictable.
Similarly EW.

In practice things are not so clean cut. Some players won't have any ACBL points. Some will have BBO points from (say) SKY CLUB. Some wont have any points at all.

I try to solve this by assigning each player 'stratification points'. A pair gets the higher of the stratification points of the 2 players in the pair.

Star = some huge number of points (to force pair into A)
ACBL points = as is
BBO Points (used if no acbl points) are multiplied by some semi-arbitrary value , like 2 or 3
Level (used if no acbl, no bbo points) are used as a last resort


I'll emphasise, though; you don't need to worry about this. Yes, some people who would not have scratched will now scratch in B or C. But no one who would win points today won't win points tomorrow. Stratification only helps, it doesnt hurt.

[blackshoe]

Why does "more points" equate to "better"?

[chicken]

to keep your customers satisfied :-).
i am sometimes working as a bridge teacher for a bridgetravel business and on these travels the same thing happens. playing teams even 2/3 of the field will get some points and when leaving after 2 weeks usually only one or two players out of 200 didnt get any points at all. so if more people get points more people will be satisfied.

[pigpenz]

i remember once looking at some results at a regional and hearing some elderly women say, look maybe if we were in section C we would have scratched with a 47%

Uday: its a little bit of both I guess you are selling games and the acbl is selling masterpoints...i guess it depends on how you look at it. what i was wondering about when we have all these pairs shuffled then do all pairs play the same amount of A's B's and C's.

[barmar]

blackshoe, on Nov 17 2006, 03:26 AM, said:

Why does "more points" equate to "better"?

It doesn't, except in a very rough sense (are there any players with 10,000 ACBL masterpoints who aren't champion-quality?).

But what else are you going to use? We don't have chess-style rankings, points are the only indicators we have.

And while more points doesn't necessarily mean better, it does mean "more experienced". You can't get lots of points unless you play a lot.

[blackshoe]

Heh. There are players who've been playing for 40 years - and are no better at the game than they were 40 years ago. No doubt the ACBL's "masterpoint giveaway" program makes them happy, but it's not gonna provide a measure of their skill.

What else can we do? Damfino. All I know is giving away more masterpoints isn't the answer.

[uday]

Quote

what i was wondering about when we have all these pairs shuffled then do all pairs play the same amount of A's B's and C's.

In the long run, for sure In the short run, I don't know. We scramble the NS pairs and the EW pairs, so I guess the answer is 'no'. I don't know if it can be done.

Short (12 bd) tourneys probably won't be overly damaged by this.

[Strangway]

I'm a bit concerned that stratifiying the acbl games will bring in more new players and dilute and already fairly weak field.

Will there perhaps be stratiflighting in the future?

[uday]

i think we could go the flighted route instead, if people would prefer that

[pbleighton]

"i think we could go the flighted route instead, if people would prefer that"

I am OK with flighting or stratifying, or keeping the tourneys as is. However, if you flight, PLEASE allow playing up. If I have to play in the lowest flight, this would ruin the tourneys for me.

Peter

[uday]

If we flight, i'll make sure playing up is an option

[chicken]

what does playing up mean?

[jillybean]

I hope it means players can play at their level/rating/flight or higher.

[uday]

yes , that is what it means