[jillybean]

What would you open with this hand? (more bidding to come)

Scoring: IMP

(p) ?

---

[Blofeld]

Good hand to pass. Least of evils.

[Winstonm]

Pass.

[jillybean]

Pass!! Oh well that makes the rest of the bidding irrelevant...
but anyway it went like this

(p) 1♥ (3♣) X
(p) 3♠ (p) 3nt

[pbleighton]

This is a HUGE hand, and I would bid 1H without any hesitation at all, even if my partnership style was to pass most balanced 12 counts.

After 3NT, I bid 4H.

Peter

[neilkaz]

pbleighton, on Nov 19 2006, 06:45 PM, said:

This is a HUGE hand, and I would bid 1H without any hesitation at all, even if my partnership style was to pass most balanced 12 counts.

After 3NT, I bid 4H.

Peter

We agree completely. I wouldn't want to leave it in 3NT when 65. PD should know that you have 6♥ and are unbalanced and can suspect that you may also have a 5th ♠. Anyhow..if you play 4♥ opposite a stiff, so be it.

[the hog]

I would open this. The only problem is that if you open 1H you cannot show S without grossly mis stating the strength of the hand, as a reverse shows a much stronger hand in terms of high card strength. Therefore as a no doubt unpopular post, I would open 1S in first and second and 1H in third seats. You were lucky as the bidding went Katherine, but you should pull 3NT to 4H.

[jillybean]

Why open 1♠ in first and second seat? Shirley! you'll never show this shape

[helene_t]

jillybean2, on Nov 20 2006, 07:15 AM, said:

Why open 1♠ in first and second seat? Shirley! you'll never show this shape

No but you're probably not going to show this shape anyway. Open 1♠ and rebid hearts as long as you can do so without showing extra values. Then you show a minimum opener with 5-5 which is the most accurate description you can get across.

I would have opened this hand, 1♥ with both of my IRL partners but probably 1♠ with a pick-up. If we have a tool to show both majors and then rebid voluntarily without showing some strong variant, I would use that.

I wonder why p dbl instead of bidding 3♦ or 3NT now that he apparently doesn't have four spades. Could it be that he meant his double as penalty? Or that he thinks he allready showed spades so now he can suggest 3NT? With a regular p I'll bid 4♠ now but with a pick-up 4♥ is probably safer.

[Cascade]

5-6 hands are notoriously difficult to bid unless you are strong enough to open your longest suit and reverse into you second suit and then later get the opportunity to rebid the second suit. The problem is greatest when the suits are touching and the higher suit is a major. With non-touching suits there is always a chance that partner will bid the suit between your first and second suit.

So you have four options:

1. Reverse as mentioned

2. Open the lower suit and risk never showing your second five-card suit (this can be very poor if it is a major)

3. Open the higher suit and distort your shape i.e. never show your six-card lower ranking suit

4. Pass and hope you can make a two-suited overcall later in the auction

This hand doesn't have the strength to reverse so 1. is out.

I wouldn't want to risk an auction where I didn't show a five-card major especially when I am opening light because of my extra distribution so 2. is out for this hand.

That means I am stuck with 3. or 4. I like to bid so I open 1♠ and hope I survive.

Like Ron said Kathryn on the auction you had you need to remove partner from 3NT. It would be nice to be able to do this and show your five spades but I don't know of anyone who plays a method where you can do that and still play at the four-level. I have sometimes thought that you could use a bid in one of the minors to show this shape but it is so low frequency it would probably be too easy to forget. So I would just bid 4♥ and hope that this is a playable contract especially if partner has three spades and only one heart and does not give a preference which is what is likely to happen.

[jillybean]

After opening 1♥ if partner responds 1nt Im not going to reverse and show my ♠Kxxxx, I'll happily bid 2♥.
After 3♣ and a double will most players expect 3♠ to show reverse values or simply shape? this is a freak auction, arent the rules off?

[fred]

I would Pass.

I agree that this hand is "strong enough to open" (whatever that means), but that does not imply that opening it will necessarily lead to the best result. Any initial action could work out best on any given deal, but my judgment suggests that Pass will be the winner in the long run.

If you open 1S there is no chance you will ever be able to describe your hand accurately. If you open 1H you have a chance, but not a very good one in my view.

If you Pass there is a good chance you will be able to describe your hand and/or learn enough about the other players' hands to judge well later in the auction.

I think most people would open this hand, but I suspect many of them would Pass if the King of diamonds (which rates to be worthless on offense) was a small card. That doesn't make much sense to me.

A 2H open is certainly obscure and I doubt that many strong players would seriously consider that auction (although Zia-Rosenberg probably would open 2H). I would not open 2H myself (unless I knew my partner expected me to bid that way), but I have more sympathy for this call than I suspect most other people would have.

I would rate the 4 choices:

Pass 100
1H 70
2H 60
1S 20

But I have no doubt that if you asked a panel of experts to rate the 4 choices, you would get a wide range of answers. This is really a question of style. However you decide to bid this hand is OK, as long as your partner thinks it is OK.

If anyone tells you that any of the choices is "clear" or "right" you should not take them seriously.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[Free]

I would also pass, since the bidding won't end and I'm only getting myself in trouble by opening 1♥.

[the hog]

jillybean2, on Nov 20 2006, 03:36 PM, said:

After opening 1♥ if partner responds 1nt Im not going to reverse and show my ♠Kxxxx, I'll happily bid 2♥.
After 3♣ and a double will most players expect 3♠ to show reverse values or simply shape? this is a freak auction, arent the rules off?

The problem with rebidding H is that you might end up in a 6-1 fit when you have a 5-3 fit in S.

Another point - does the X by your partner promise S at all. I guess (s)he did not have 4 as she pulled 3S to 3Nt. I suspect she has 3 however, so whether to pull 3NT to 4H or 4S is a guess.

Re Fred's comments, yes you have little chance of showing this hand type whatever you open. I believe this hand should be opened, primarily because i do not want to have to bid at too high a level when i have the Major suits. Yes, I would pass if the K of D were a small card. The reason I believe this si correct is that the DK MAY well add something to partner's hand. The point is that at this stage we simply don't know.

As I said in a previous post a week or so ago, this hand is a good argument for playing some form of 2 suited opening.

[jillybean]

(corrected)
We didnt have an agreement on the double here, I took it as 'do something smart pard' I did consider 4♥ but feeling like I was already in way over my head, passed...next time I might do something smart

[1eyedjack]

I broadly agree with Cascade's concerns about missing a major suit fit with hands like this. However it is my normal style to pass with extreme 2-suiters, even stronger than this, on the grounds that my subsequent action will be more descriptive than anything I can do by opening, but that is a fringe view, I know, and I look sick if it gets passed out (not happened yet, touch wood).

If I open this hand I open it 1H, despite the risk of missing a Spade fit, really because the Spade suit is quite poor. If responder has 4 Spades then I hope still to find the Spade fit (can be tricky if you get a bouncy competitive auction, I agree). If we miss precisely a 5-3 Spade fit AND Spades play better than Hearts I would reckon that a bit unlucky.

On the stated auction, I would be quite worried about 3S being passed. Would you not bid that way with a minimum 4-5-?-? shape? It looks as though it would have turned out a disaster but I would have bid 4S over the double. What did he have for the double, by the way?

[whereagles]

well, despite all that's been said, i still prefer to open 1S

[keylime]

The K♦ is a potential albatross waiting to happen.

I agree with Fred's post; awkward 2 suiters are a bear to deal with.

I'm passing and awaiting further developments.

[the hog]

"The KD is a potential albatross waiting to happen."

Dwayne that happens to be the most mangled metaphor I have ever come across in my life.