BBO Discussion Forums: redoubled slam... - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

redoubled slam... trick 2 decision

#1 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2006-October-31, 00:14

Scoring: IMP


LHO opened 1H, RHO bid 3S showing unspecified splinter, 10-12 HCP. LHO inquired with 3N. RHO bid 4C showing short clubs and LHO bid 4D last train (not necessarily showing a control). RHO cuebid 4S, LHO bid keycard, RHO bid 5S 2 with the queen, LHO bid 6H. p p and you said X to try and get the diamond lead (I did not hold this hand so don't shoot me for this one). LHO says XX and that ends the auction. Partner leads the 2 of diamonds playing 3/5th, 9 A, low. What do you play now and why?

edit: i got the directions wrong yet again... WTF i am officially retarded... ok im going to fix it.

edit edit: word.
0

#2 User is offline   MartininBC 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 13
  • Joined: 2006-August-16
  • Location:Vancouver, BC

Posted 2006-October-31, 01:07

Something's wrong with this hand post ... I presume the hand you have put in the diagram as West is actually EAST. Edit: now fixed; thanks.

I'd return a club. It's hard to imagine LHO bidding the slam staring at Jxx in diamonds, so presumably partner's lead was a fifth, and declarer has only one. Declarer appears to have excellent chances to make the contract, but his chances are better if I send him back a spade, or set up QD, I suspect.

The double looks a bit pointless, as presumably a double of the artifical 3S and 4C bids would have been lead requesting, so a diamond lead would have been likely anyway.

Are we trying to fool declarer by playing the Ace instead of the King at trick 1? Why bother concealing the info we have already given away by the double? It appears more likely to fool partner than declarer. The only reason to do it appears to be to try to underlead KD at trick 2 and hope declarer ruffs ... sounds like desperation measures.
My bridge tip: never raise to 6NT a partner who thinks "rectifying the count" involves garlic, crucifixes and a wooden stake.
0

#3 User is offline   cnszsun 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Yellows
  • Posts: 720
  • Joined: 2004-January-06
  • Location:CHINA

Posted 2006-October-31, 02:28

If declarer's hand is: Kxx KQxxx x Axxx, it seems you have to return a trump or a small ♦ to cut his communication. Otherwise, declarer can ruff out ♣s, and squeeze you in the suit ♠ and ♦.
So, i will return a small ♦. It may also misguide declarer to think west with ♦K, that could be necessary if he got some hands.
Michael Sun

#4 User is offline   hatchett 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 589
  • Joined: 2005-November-02
  • Location:Moldova

Posted 2006-October-31, 03:44

Quote

So, i will return a small ♦. It may also misguide declarer to think west with ♦K, that could be necessary if he got some hands.


I don't think a misguess is very likely if that is the layout . Partner has underled an ace and we have doubled off the the K alone?
0

#5 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2006-October-31, 03:49

hatchett, on Oct 31 2006, 04:44 AM, said:

I don't think a misguess is very likely if that is the layout . Partner has underled an ace and we have doubled off the the K alone?

well you did carefully remember to win the ace at trick 1.
0

#6 User is offline   1eyedjack 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,575
  • Joined: 2004-March-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 2006-October-31, 03:51

hatchett, on Oct 31 2006, 10:44 AM, said:

Quote

So, i will return a small ♦. It may also misguide declarer to think west with ♦K, that could be necessary if he got some hands.


I don't think a misguess is very likely if that is the layout . Partner has underled an ace and we have doubled off the the K alone?

You won trick 1 with the ace, so partner is known not to have underled an ace
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
0

#7 User is offline   hatchett 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 589
  • Joined: 2005-November-02
  • Location:Moldova

Posted 2006-October-31, 03:58

Quote

You won trick 1 with the ace, so partner is known not to have underled an ace


Okay sorry, but I stand by a misguess isn't very likely if declarer is any sort of player!. I guess it might bully a weak player, the sort that doesn't like to go off at trick two.
0

#8 User is offline   Codo 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,373
  • Joined: 2003-March-15
  • Location:Hamburg, Germany
  • Interests:games and sports, esp. bridge,chess and (beach-)volleyball

Posted 2006-October-31, 06:53

How desperate must a slam be to let a low diamond run to dummy at trick two?
After all declarer redoubled, knowing that pds hand was something like Axx?,Axxx?,xxx?,x with two to four hcps here or there.
So, even most good players will ruff a low diamond now. And there may be a reason to return a diamond now. If you don´t do it, you and your pd need to hold onto two diamonds or declarer can get a diamond trick if he can figure out who is done to the blanked king or jack.

So I would play a diamond now, because this is much more likely then a declarer who is so desperate for tricks, that he tries to get one right now, hoping that we underlead our king.
Kind Regards

Roland

Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
0

#9 User is offline   hatchett 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 589
  • Joined: 2005-November-02
  • Location:Moldova

Posted 2006-October-31, 09:59

Quote

How desperate must a slam be to let a low diamond run to dummy at trick two?
After all declarer redoubled, knowing that pds hand was something like Axx?,Axxx?,xxx?,x with two to four hcps here or there.


Well the redoubler is known not to have his call, since I can't think of a hand that is close to a redouble that isn't cold opposite that dummy with an enormous 5th trump and fitting club Q.
Personally, after the lead, I don't see how declarer is going to read the double as anything but ♦AK.

I would return a trump in case declarer has Jx KQxxxx x AKxx
0

#10 User is offline   suokko 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 289
  • Joined: 2005-October-18
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Helsinki (Finland)
  • Interests:*dreaming*

Posted 2006-October-31, 10:46

I lead trump back it is only card that can kill entries possible S+D squeeze. If declarer holds Kxx KQxxx x Axxx. Declarer needs 4 entries to hand for club ruffs and to run hearts for squeeze. CA+KQ trumps and DT ruff. If returning a trump declarer is short one entry back and squeeze is broken.

Call TD for slow play, please :)
0

#11 User is offline   cherdano 

  • 5555
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,520
  • Joined: 2003-September-04
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2006-October-31, 11:04

Jlall, on Oct 31 2006, 11:49 AM, said:

hatchett, on Oct 31 2006, 04:44 AM, said:

I don't think a misguess is very likely if that is the layout .  Partner has underled an ace and we have doubled off the the K alone?

well you did carefully remember to win the ace at trick 1.

Yeah, but you DID double 6H, and you tanked for ages before returning a diamond. Wait you returned low diamond in tempo?

Btw, while I don't like the double of 6H, I can't blame it, as actually partner would have led a spade without the double. Partners suck :P

Arend
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
0

#12 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2006-October-31, 11:08

Hum.. if declarer has indeed

Kxx
KQJxx
x
Axxx

and I play a diamond, he can

a.) disc a spade and take 12 tricks
b.) ruff and squeeze me in D/S

If I play a passive club or trump he can squeeze me anyway, but if he has ♠KJx instead, he might prefer to finesse the spade into the wrong hand...
0

#13 Guest_Jlall_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 2006-October-31, 12:52

suokko, on Oct 31 2006, 11:46 AM, said:

I lead trump back it is only card that can kill entries possible S+D squeeze. If declarer holds Kxx KQxxx x Axxx. Declarer needs 4 entries to hand for club ruffs and to run hearts for squeeze. CA+KQ trumps and DT ruff. If returning a trump declarer is short one entry back and squeeze is broken.

Call TD for slow play, please :P

Very good :)

My actual hand (I was declarer) was Kxx KQJxx x AJ9x. If you return a club I can win, club ruff, heart to hand, club ruff, heart to hand, club ruff, diamond ruff, run off the trumps and squeeze you in spades and diamonds. If you return a trump the entries are messed up to do that (try it yourself).

As for leading back a low diamond, there is no way I would ever go wrong. What did you X on? As for my redouble, looking at my hand what could the double be other than the AK of diamonds? Well RHO having the AK of diamonds is great news for me.. there won't be much wastage on the hand. Plus partner showed the trump queen so i know he has five of them so there will be no problem ruffing 3 clubs. So the only problem will be the third round of spades. Since partner still has 4 HCP to work with there is a very good chance I will be able to handle the third round of spades, and even if I can't we are only going down 1 so I had great odds to XX.
0

#14 User is offline   MartininBC 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 13
  • Joined: 2006-August-16
  • Location:Vancouver, BC

Posted 2006-October-31, 21:44

Actually I think you CAN still make on the trump return, though it is a bit double dummy. Win trick 2 with AH, play AC, ruff a club, and a trump to KH drawing all trumps. Now lead JC, and run it (if LHO doesn't cover you can end with the same QD-and-three-spades ending as described above). If LHO covers, ruff in dummy, ruff a diamond to hand, and lead the last two trumps. You have in hand Kxx in spades and the club 9. Dummy has AT9 in spades and the diamond Q, and RHO is unhappily sequentially squeezed out of Qxx in spades, the KD and the TC.

A transferred menace - I love it!
My bridge tip: never raise to 6NT a partner who thinks "rectifying the count" involves garlic, crucifixes and a wooden stake.
0

#15 User is offline   1eyedjack 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,575
  • Joined: 2004-March-12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 2006-November-01, 02:41

MartininBC, on Nov 1 2006, 04:44 AM, said:

Actually I think you CAN still make on the trump return, though it is a bit double dummy. Win trick 2 with AH, play AC, ruff a club, and a trump to KH drawing all trumps. Now lead JC, and run it (if LHO doesn't cover you can end with the same QD-and-three-spades ending as described above). If LHO covers, ruff in dummy, ruff a diamond to hand, and lead the last two trumps. You have in hand Kxx in spades and the club 9. Dummy has AT9 in spades and the diamond Q, and RHO is unhappily sequentially squeezed out of Qxx in spades, the KD and the TC.

A transferred menace - I love it!

I think defence still prevails. The Jack of Clubs is covered and a Spade is discarded on the final trump.

Declarer is left with three winning spades and a losing diamond in one hand, and three winning spades and a losing club in the other. When he attempts to cash his three spades the player with Diamond King and Club Ten can choose which one to release at trick 12 so as to force you to lose trick 13 (along with trick 1).
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
0

#16 User is offline   hatchett 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 589
  • Joined: 2005-November-02
  • Location:Moldova

Posted 2006-November-01, 02:48

Doesn't work because the triple squeeze does not repeat. This is your ending


♠AT9x
♥-
♦Q
♣-


♠Kxx
♥X
♦-
♣9

You play the last heart and dummy pitches a ♠. RHO who has ♠Qxx ♦K ♣T throws a ♠. He then keeps the winner that covers the card which is in the hand which is going to win the third round of spades.

The contract does make if LHO does not cover the ♣J becuase the hand then reverts to the ♦/♠ squeeze aginst east.
0

#17 User is offline   Free 

  • mmm Duvel
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,728
  • Joined: 2003-July-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belgium
  • Interests:Duvel, Whisky

Posted 2006-November-01, 03:57

I was thinking of ♠Q or trump. I think trump can't give much away, but doesn't win at first glance. Leading ♠Q might mislead declarer...
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
0

#18 User is offline   MartininBC 

  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 13
  • Joined: 2006-August-16
  • Location:Vancouver, BC

Posted 2006-November-02, 18:58

1eyedJack and Hatchett are right, my transferred menace triple squeeze doesn't work. Darn.
My bridge tip: never raise to 6NT a partner who thinks "rectifying the count" involves garlic, crucifixes and a wooden stake.
0
Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users