[jvage]

Here is a problem from my live club (Norway) the other night. Since the level is generally very high, I was surprised to see that most pairs did (almost) as bad as us, so this board may have some general interest. I was playing with a new, but good partner (a "BBO star") against very strong opponents (former winners of the North American Open Pairs). We played a natural system with no agreements relevant to the problem. You'll get to critizice my bidding later, but I'll start by giving the problem from partners side.

Partner deals, none vul, MP
Q83
T7642
83
A92

1♣ (1♥) Pass (2♥)
3♣ (3♥) ?

Do you agree with the first pass, and what do you bid now? What would you do if RHO had passed (as happened at some tables)?

John

[paulg]

You cannot criticise the first pass although I'm sure some intrepid players will bid 1NT at this scoring and vulnerability.

Now I think I am left with a nasty problem and four options: Pass, Dbl, 3NT and 4♣. At matchpoints I think I'll double and lead a trump, with 4♣ my second choice. Given the auction I cannot have a penalty pass and so partner can remove with poor defence and very long clubs. Whether he can do this after my five minute hesitation is less clear

Good problem for a bidding panel.

Paul

[HeartA]

I agree with the first pass. Now I bid 4C. With RHO's 3H, I have another choice, X, which comes second.

[mikeh]

I'd bid 5♣. 4♣ is the bid I'd make without the ♠Q.

It would be useful to be playing some form of good/bad or bad/good 2N so that I could tell how good partner's 3♣ bid was. Was it merely competitive or does he really have a good hand? Axx void Axx KJxxxxx surely gives me a good play for game.

Now, maybe that game should be 3N, but that is putting all of my eggs in one basket, and I doubt that I'd ever make an overtrick, so there is no advantage to 3N over 5♣, if both make, and 5♣ rates to be slightly safer:

AJx void KQx KQJxxxx: 3N is going to fail most times but 5♣ is on ice.

I wouldn't double. I doubt that I'd beat a good opp more than 1 and never 500.

[pclayton]

My gut says 5♣; but I think pard will carry on over 4♣ with a max 3♣ call like Mike's example.

[whereagles]

4♣ to me too. I don't like to bury partner for stretching a bit at MPs.

[jvage]

I'll add a few comments before I give the full hands.

No-one has commented on what they would bid if RHO passed (instead of 3♥). That was what happened at most tables, and it changes the problem somewhat.

The reason I said "no relevant agreements" was partly to see if "good/bad" would be standard with an expert partner in this position (I did not expect this partner to play that convention), and if not what the panel would expect for a minimum 3♣ bid. Pclayton (and probably some of the other 4♣ bidders) expects partner to bid again with Mike's example hands. The first of these was:
Axx
-
Axx
KJxxxxx

5♣ got good play (only needs the spade King with the opponent who has shown the strongest hand), but isn't this very close to a minimum 3♣? Partner has already rebid his clubsuit freely with a passing partner and 2 bidding opponents.

John

[whereagles]

In the case

1♣ (2♥) pass (3♥)
3♣

the 3♣ bid doesn't tell a min from a max, nor is there a need to because responder is weak and is bound to pass 90%+ of the time anyway. What opener lacks in extras is what opps have, so shape is the issue. You can bid with any min hand because, since opps have a fit, opener is bound to find a fit in pard as well.

There's a case for using a good-bad 2NT after 2♥, but not to tell a min from a max. It's better used to show an offensive (bids direct suit) vs or defensive hand (bids via 2NT).

[Echognome]

I might be misquoting, but doesn't Mike Lawrence say in Hand Evaluation "If you have wasted values in opponent's suit, then partner is minimum for his bidding." If that is the case, then is the corollary that if you do not have wasted values, it is more likely that partner is not minimum?

My only concern about bidding 5♣ on this hand is that partner may play me for more playing strength than I have.

I bid 4♣ with or without the interference.

[Codo]

PD won´t have a hand which has no good play for 5 Club, but he can surely have a stronger hand, up to. Akx,-,AKx,KQxxxxx
In this case, I will miss a lay down grand slam if I don´t move. I think, that I will produce at least 2 tricks for him and believe, that I have three, a spade, a club and a diamond ruff.
So I would proceed with a strong move. I guess 4 Club is passable and it is not standard to play 4 diamond here as KC, so I simply bid 5 Club.

[jvage]

I will nor argue with the eminent posters, who on average will do much better than us who played the board

My hand was:
AJ
-
AKxx
KT8xxxx

Everything was favourable (my LHO had Qx in clubs with a doubleton diamonds, RHO had the spade K). The field played 3, 4 and 5 clubs, mostly making 13 tricks (420 for scoring only 12 tricks in 5♣ was about 65%). When my partner passed 3♥ I chose a conservative pass (I would have raised 4 or 5♣ a level), and 150 for 3 down earned us a fat zero, followed by several 170's and 190's

John