[elwood913]

Hi...
I'm new to ACBL bridge and to BBO... i've been playing the ACBL tournaments that award masterspoints and have been fortunate to place high enough to reciecve poins in many of them. But at the ACBL site they say I have no masterspoints. I have checked and am sure i have the correct ACBL number registered with BBo. Is there something else I have to do to get my msterspoints eraned on BBO recorded with nthe ACBL?
Thank You,
BIll

[Rain]

The points are sent once a month at the beginning of the next month, so just wait a bit if you've only started getting points in Oct.

[jocdelevat]

I think it says that just 1.67 (or 1.37 )onlime points qulify for master points so I do the trasnlation 1.67 online =1master point however not sure I undestood correct.

[uday]

Where does it say that ? We report all the acbl points won in BBO monthly to the acbl. The ACBL has various categories of points, including one for points won online.

There are some restrictions on using these "online", these "colorless" points in ACBL's point races etc.

[bid_em_up]

I cant find it on the ACBL website at the moment.

Online points are considered to be colorless (unpigmented) points. At one point in time (and I think it still applies), no more than 1/3 of the points required for a given ranking were allowed to be colorless.

You still get the points awarded, they just don't count towards achieving the next rank. When you achieve the next rank, then you get a larger "amount" of your points to use towards your requirement for the next rank.

ie. 0-5 = 1.65 can be colorless (1/3)*5
6-20 = 6.66 can be colorless (1/3)*20
21-49 = 16.3 can be colorless (1/3)*49

etc.

[jocdelevat]

This is what shows after I sign on acbl.org:

"My Next Rank Is Junior Master
You need 3.33 more masterpoints.
Note: Only 1.67 Online Points are eligible.
Requirements include all masterpoints processed at ACBL Headquarters. Rank and masterpoint race updates are posted about the 10th of each month. "

so i don't understand what means "only 1.67 online points are eligible" Thats why I cocluded that conversion 1.67=1master point but still not sure.

Anyhow In September I was 3 times in points but it shows only one which is not the sum of all 3.

[hrothgar]

jocdelevat, on Oct 28 2006, 01:42 AM, said:

This is what shows after I sign on acbl.org:

"My Next Rank Is Junior Master
You need 3.33 more masterpoints.
Note: Only 1.67 Online Points are eligible.
Requirements include all masterpoints processed at ACBL Headquarters. Rank and masterpoint race updates are posted about the 10th of each month. "

so i don't understand what means "only 1.67 online points are eligible" Thats why I cocluded that conversion 1.67=1master point but still not sure.

Anyhow In September I was 3 times in points but it shows only one which is not the sum of all 3.

The ACBL's business model is based on selling master points. The ACBL rarely sells these points directly; rather it licenses the right to issue master points to different subcontractors in return for a slice of the pie.

Unfortunately, the ACBL has lots of different sub-contractors, with very different priorities. Case in point: Many individuals run ACBL affiliated clubs in different towns and cities. I've seen many club owners put forth arguments that it is too easy for players to get Master Points in large tournaments or online.

In part, the ACBL solved this problem by introducing pigmented points: You get one color point at clubs, another color from section events, a third from National events. Players who want to achieve the illustrious title of Life MAster need to jump through all sorts of hoops and tithe to clubs owner, the folks running the sectionals and regionals, as well as to Memphis. The ACBL also made the decision to cap the number of Master Points that players could get from online sites (this is another sop thrown to the local club owners)

In a perfect world, people would play bridge because they actually like the game and not go chasing after silly little titles. In a similar fashion, local club owners who wanted to encourage membership would focus on improve their game rather the kneecapping the competition. However, the world is far from perfect...

[barmar]

jocdelevat, on Oct 27 2006, 06:42 PM, said:

so i don't understand what means "only 1.67 online points are eligible"

As bid_em_up said, only 1/3 of the points needed for a rank can be online points. It takes 5 points to become a Junior Master, so only 1.67 colorless points count towards achieving this rank. No matter how many points you win online, you need to get at least 3.33 points from face-to-face bridge to become a Junior Master.

In addition to Richard's explanation about trying to promote club games, the other reason that ACBL limits the amount of online points that can be used is because there's still a widespread feeling that there's lots of cheating in online bridge. Whether it's true or not is almost irrelevant, the expectation is that if you make online masterpoints more valuable, cheating will be encouraged and rewarded even more. So if there's lots of cheating going on, they at least mitigate the damage it does in masterpoint races.

[jocdelevat]

If all those rumors are true and things are going how it describe here seems that the ACBL advertise for masterpoints is a big bluff.
Thing is I enjoy playing in ACBL Indy when im not tired because players are more carefull biding and playing on paid tourneys. I got to play with all kind of partners with levels and skills.
Why ACBL host those tourneys if even the organization don't trust in the online tourneys. Seems to me like try to sell something that is not good for your clients.
Anyhow it is a bit disapointing to hear all those things.
Hmm I may have to think twice before I register to another ACBL tourney.

p.s I have a long time to wait till I will be able to play in face to face tourneys.

[hrothgar]

jocdelevat, on Oct 28 2006, 04:28 AM, said:

If all those rumors are true and things are going how it describe here seems that the ACBL advertise for masterpoints is a big bluff.
Thing is I enjoy playing in ACBL Indy when im not tired because players are more carefull biding and playing on paid tourneys. I got to play with all kind of partners with levels and skills.
Why ACBL host those tourneys if even the organization don't trust in the online tourneys. Seems to me like try to sell something that is not good for your clients.
Anyhow it is a bit disapointing to hear all those things.
Hmm I may have to think twice before I register to another ACBL tourney.

Even I (probably) wouldn't go that far...

Masterpoints are a scam, plain and simple. However, this doesn't mean that you shouldn't play in ACBL tournaments. As you note, there are some significant "pluses" to the ACBL's online tournaments:

1. ACBL tournaments offer a consistent set of tournament regulations from event to event

2. The ACBL makes an effort to train its Tournament Directors

3. ACBL tournaments charge an enterance fees. As you note, this tends to encourage a more serious playing environment.

Personally, when I'm paying for a tournament, I prefer to play in HomeBase events. I think that you get a lot more bang for your buck.

Your Milage May Vary...

[Al_U_Card]

Remember "green stamps"? Or Canadian Tire money or cashback rewards or Air miles? Masterpoints are just an incentive to attend.....and do a little better than average (at your own level).

The ACBL is in the business of getting bridge playing butts in the seats...(like baseball or any other attendance dependent endeavor) That they found an offering that keeps 'em coming through the turnstiles...good for them.

You want good bridge, find a good game. You want to play bridge with your friends...get a life....lol

[Rain]

air miles for bridge? Was this an older, expired scheme? I think I like air miles better than mp

[Gerben42]

You can buy something for Air Miles. Masterpoints are completely worthless!
An extra motivation to do well are real prizes (either cash or other prizes) which I think are essential to almost any real tournament, or where you can get a title directly by winning (for example national champion).

Tournaments without prizes around here are basically summed up as "club tournaments".

[uday]

Is it the case that all the big non-USA tourneys offer cash prizes, then?
How do they cope with cheating, if the prizes are nontrivial? And are the card fees typically much higher than in a no-prize tournament?

Here I think card fees are about 15-18 USD per session (2 sessions a day). Of course, card fees are usually a trivial expense in the context of travel, housing, meals & beer when it comes to the big US tournaments (our "Nationals")

[barmar]

jocdelevat, on Oct 27 2006, 09:28 PM, said:

Why ACBL host those tourneys if even the organization don't trust in the online tourneys. Seems to me like try to sell something that is not good for your clients.

It's a compromise. ACBL recognizes that online play is critical to bringing in younger players, which is necessary for the future of the game. Thousands of people are playing online bridge every day, and ACBL wants a piece of that action.

On the other hand, they have face-to-face clubs that are worried that online bridge may siphon players away from them, and members who worry about the integrity of online players, since it's so easy to cheat there.

So they started awarding masterpoints for online games, but put a limit on how valuable these would be. This keeps players going to the live clubs if they care about masterpoint ranks, and reduces the incentive to cheat.

[pigpenz]

on BBO there are people who play on average 5-7 games a day here, seven days a week...so put about $150 month into the coffers of BBO and the ACBL. There are other clubs here that offer a better product for the BUCK but lack the Hook,eg mainly masterpoints.

In the real world there are competing clubs(acbl) in the same city holding games at the sametime in competition with each other.....competition is what usually makes a better product. If other clubs like Homebase could get sanctioned by the ACBL and BBO would allow them to run games with ACBL masterpoints as a giveaway then there would be a better product!!!!

but only the powers to be have the final say

[barmar]

Well, if you're comparing bang for buck, let's look at the numbers. An offline club game is about 24 boards, equivalent to two online tourneys. Offline clubs mostly charge at least $6 for these games, while you only pay $2 for the two online tourneys. I assume that one of the reasons for these low online prices is because ACBL's sanction fee is lower (although there are other factors, like the club not having to pay rent). And ACBL justifies the lower sanction fee because the masterpoint awards are not as valuable.

Would you be willing to see the price of online games go up so that the masterpoints would be given full status?

[mike777]

The ACBL is set up for its paying members.

Like many organizations it is struggling with how to market to a new generation of membership while not losing the old paying members who pay for 90% or more the ACBL bills and revenue.

Sometimes this transition is impossible. The old organization ends up catering to the old dying off patrons and a new organization comes into being for the new members.

I can understand the struggle the ACBL is having with making online players happy and keeping the older paying members who still pay 90% of the bills happy.

Frankly I thought there would be even more resistance to giving any color/noncolor points online. The transition has started and is working. The ACBL is trying to figure out a way for sectional and higher rated tourneys online.
How do you do that without destroying your old revenue stream before the new one is reliable? How do you protect against cheating?

Despite all the ridicule masterpoints has gotten over the last 30 years or longer they work and draw in people and players. The provide a way for pros and book writers to make a living.

Many just enjoy the competition and could care less about MP. That is wonderful but you still need to generate millions of bucks somehow to keep the championships viable and the interest in the game/books, magazines up.

Fred has stated over and over he does not care about the basket full of MP he gets for second place he wants to win the playoffs and play in the Bermuda Bowl!

But it is still all of us older over 50 years who year after year send in our money to the ACBL, piddle along, and enjoy paying for the game so the league can exist and some new lifeblood can find some enjoyment in this great game.

[pbleighton]

"How do you protect against cheating?"

You don't, at least with present technology.

IMO, we will need much better technology before there are any
prestigious tournaments online.

Peter

[mike777]

pbleighton, on Nov 1 2006, 07:46 PM, said:

"How do you protect against cheating?"

You don't, at least with present technology.

IMO, we will need much better technology before there are any
prestigious tournaments online.

Peter

Hurry up, faster please you tech smart guys, please!