[kenrexford]

First:

1♣-P-1♥-P-
1♠-P-1NT-P-
2♦???

What kind of hand for 2♦?

Second:

1♦-1♥-1NT-P-
2♣-P-2♠???

What kind of hand for 2♠?

I have my opinion, but it was not the majority position on either. Actually, I was the only one so far...

[mike777]

1) ? maybe
Axxx
void
Kxxx
AKQxx

2) 2s forces 2nt and partner will show a good strong invite in clubs or diamonds for me with her rebid.

[Echognome]

First hand is consistent with a 4=0=4=5.

Second hand is probably by agreement. I would take the "impossible" 2♠ as showing a maximum hand (for 1NT) club raise.

[cherdano]

Echognome, on Oct 8 2006, 05:21 AM, said:

First hand is consistent with a 4=0=4=5.

Second hand is probably by agreement. I would take the "impossible" 2♠ as showing a maximum hand (for 1NT) club raise.

First hand could also be a strong 4=0=3=6 I suppose.

Second hand is certainly by agreement, but I don't see what else except good club raise it should be, and I would assume this with any good partner without discussion.

Arend

[awm]

I like to play the first sequence as artificial, showing a good 3-card heart raise. This allows opener to rebid 2♥ in this sequence on various minimum hands including 4♠+3♥.

On the second auction, 2♥ is available to show a good club raise. And a "club raise with spade values" also doesn't make much sense because responder has already promised heart values. I'd define the second sequence as a club raise with spade shortness, probably something like 1435 shape.

[kenrexford]

Well, my extreme minority view seems to be majoritarian here.

On both, the "theory" of a 1NT call's range is important, perhaps. I happen to be of the school where 1NT could be a "bad 11," especially as 1NT is 14+. This seems to "require" a pattern-descriptive call on the complimentary game-values hand.

Thus, 2♦ seems to be an appropriate call, as suggested, with about 15-16 and roughyl 4045 pattern. Perhaps also 4135, or even 3145?

On this first, OPENER makes the "in the range" call; should 2NT then decline? I passed 2NT, and partner tabled 10 HCP's, making 11 tricks.

On the second, I also thought 2♠ was a tweener call, showing club acceptance values of about 10-11 (the 1NT call being 7-11, perhaps). I was not sure if 2♠ showed strictly "shortness" or asked for help there. I held Qx in spades. It seemed that 2♥ would simply state a maximum with one stop, 2NT a maximum with two stops.

The play in 2♠ (yes, partner passed) was funny. I managed and elopement and a coup en passant for down only one. Diamonds were 3-3, and a heart lead hit the table. Spades were Qx opposite xxx. After setting up the heart King, the defense did not switch to a trump, opting to switch to a stiff club. I won, cashed the heart King, ruffed a heart on dummy. Three diamonds survived. Now, the fourth diamond allowed me to pick up the spade Queen en passant, as the A-K were to my right. LOL

[P_Marlowe]

1) 4th suit
2) if I recall it correctly, 2S shows
good club raise, since responder
cant have rediscovered a 4 card
spade suit

With kind regards
Marlowe

[akhare]

This is tangential, but we have a few disasters yesterday involving reverses.

Playing 2/1, MPs, the first sequence went:

1♥ - 1N - 2♠ - 2N (a) - 3N

a) Forcing 3♣, likely sign off

3N made after K♣ lead and surving a ♠ switch and ♣ through, but 6♦ is cold.

The hands were:

Opener:

♠: KQJ7
♥: AKXXX
♦: KQJX
♣: Void

♠: Void
♥: XX
♦AT9XXX
♣:QXXXX

The second sequence was:

1♦ - 1N - 3♦ - 3N -- down 1 after a ♠ lead w/ 4♥ cold.

♠: Q
♥: AT92
♦: KJ8742
♣: AK

Responder:

♠:KXX
♥: KXXX
♦: QXX
♣: JTX

Opener didn't like reverses and thought that it was enough to express "doubt" about 3N by bidding 3♦ and a 2♥ reverse was besides the point. However, responder had decided to mastermind the auction by responding 1N.

Anyway, the point of bringing this up is that I think that reverses are one of the worst hacks in 2/1 (and maybe SAYC too). There seems to be no clear consensus on the strength (or even length requirements) for the second suit and what message you are trying to get across.

I don't know if playing a convention like Gazilli might solve some problems in this regard...

[kenrexford]

Although I like the concepts behind Gazilli, or perhaps a simpler semi-natural/semi-forcing 2♣ in many auctions, I find it frightening and amazing that Gazilli is proposed as a solution for "difficult" reverses. It seems better to learn the logic to the reverse and then decide if radical artificiality is needed.

I also find your partner's selection of calls here very strange.

On the first, after a reverse of 2♠ and a Lebensohl 2NT, I cannot imagine a hand more suitable for a rejection of the relay and a straight 3♦ call. It is natural, describes the hand perfectly, and is the exact hand partner should expect.

With the second, I cannot understand a 3♦ call when 2♥ is the obvious alternative. You aparently use a relay for the usually-weak alternative. If that relay in this auction is Leb/2NT, 3♣ on A-K tight is perfectly comfortable. If the relay is Ing/2♠, the stiff spade honor and club A-K, nine of the points, makes 2NT equally comfortable. If either is "uncomfortable" for some reason, the sixth diamond makes 3♦, the same level reached in the alternative auction, a comfortable alternative.

Again, perhaps you'd be better off explaining bridge to your partner rather than complicating things with Gazilli or the like.

BTW, I'm not so sure 1NT on the second was all that masterminding. 1♥ is a reasonable alternative, but 1NT is not bad either.

[akhare]

kenrexford, on Oct 8 2006, 03:27 PM, said:

BTW, I'm not so sure 1NT on the second was all that masterminding. 1♥ is a reasonable alternative, but 1NT is not bad either.

How about 1N bid in lieu of 1♥ when the ♦ bid promised an unbalanced hand or a balanced 15-17 point hand? At the very least, it risks wrong siding the NT contract -- an important consideration at MPs. Yes, it exposes the K♠, but is that really that important?

Also, how many ♥s does the reverse into 2♥ promise? From what I am told, reverses can be made on as few as 2 cards in the suit!!!

I suppose in this case responder will scamper to 3♥ and this we'll land in the right spot of 4♥...