[whereagles]

Matchpoints, adv field and pard, expert opps. You hold, at love all,

♠ Kxxx
♥ xx
♦ AKxx
♣ xxx

Pard RHO you LHO
pass.pass..1♦...1♥
..1♠...2♦..pass..2♥
..2♠...3♥...??

1♦ = your typical lead-directing 3rd seat opener.
1♠ = shows 5+ cards, usually 7+ hcp.
2♦ = cue, heart support.
pass 2nd round despite 9-card fit = done because pard overbids at the slightest excuse.

Note: pard might have opened a 5-card weak 2♠.

Do you press on with 3♠ or not?

[Free]

Hard to tell what to do now. Should've bid 2♠ on the previous round and let partner decide...

[FrancesHinden]

I bid 2S on the previous round and then leave it to partner.

[Mr. Dodgy]

yep

[whereagles]

Looks like people like transfers.. as in "transfer the blame to pard"

[joker_gib]

As the others say, you create the problem by not bidding 2♠ on 2♦

Alain

[whereagles]

Can we agree on discussing what to bid now, instead of arguing what should have been?

[joker_gib]

whereagles, on Sep 19 2006, 02:17 PM, said:

Can we agree on discussing what to bid now, instead of arguing what should have been?

No, sorry but it would never happen to me not to bid 2♠ with this so I can't actually tell you what I would do now.

Alain

[whereagles]

If you can't tell me what you would bid now, then why bother responding?

Besides, if you are paying attention, you should have already discovered that, had you bid 2♠ before, pard would have bid 3♠ in double-quick time. By passing you now have the chance to pass or bid 3♠ anyway. Obviously, one of these is the right bid; the other is wrong. The question is which...

[joker_gib]

whereagles, on Sep 19 2006, 03:07 PM, said:

Obviously, one of these is the right bid; the other is wrong. The question is which...

Toss a coin !

[david_c]

OK, so we're love all at MP and partner has vountarily bid 2♠ without knowing of any support. I can't imagine not competing to 3♠ here. Are you worried about pushing opps into a making 4♥ or something?

Of course, I agree with everyone else that the previous pass is thoroughly weird.

[whereagles]

I don't understand why people find passing 2nd round so wierd. After all, you

1. Have spades and can outbid hearts.

2. Passing and bidding spades later shows 9-11 hcp, since with 12+ you bid spades straight away.

3. The auction won't die in 2♥. The 2♦ is forcing, remember? I will balance 2♠ over 2♥. Note that by bidding like this opps won't even know the extent of my fit. That might retract them from going to 3♥.

4. Given pard is a person who bids way too much when he has a fit, tactically the bid seems even more justified.

There is one thing against not bidding spades: it makes it much harder to find a sacrifice over opps' 4♥. But that is a risk I took considering pard is an overbidder.

[kenberg]

If partner has AQxxx of spades and out, with maybe a stray jack to make 7 points, I have no idea of how I am beating 4H. Having passed earlier, I guess I'll pass again and hope they don't bid it.

Of course he shouldn't bid 2S on this without hearing from you, but he probably is bidding 2S knowing that you would not bid 2S with support. This sounds like an out of control feedback loop where you don't bid 2S because he overbids, so he overbids more because you hold back. This could get exciting. Pretty soon he will be opening at the six level.

[whereagles]

humpf.. ok. I see this is getting out of control. I thought people would appreciate more of tactical bidding. Guess I was wrong.

Well, in case you're interested, in practice bidding 3♠ grants you -300 (LHO will double with AJT of spades), while passing goes for -170. Opps are cold for 4♥ but they weren't going to bid it. However, most of the field did bid 4, so -300 would score 60%. Not surprisingly, pard's hand was no where near a 2♠ bid: Qxxxx QTx x KTxx

[kenberg]

I logged back on to say I was reconsidering my pass. I guess I should reconsider my reconsideration.

The reason for rethinking the pass is this: Not everyone would open your hand in 3rd position. I wouldn't, for example. Given lho's lack of enthusiasm for his partner's invitation and his presumed lack of much spade length, it's reasonable to think that if I pass instead of opening 1D, the hand gets passed out. Therefore, having opened, I had better play on the assumption that this is our hand. Maybe 3S makes and spades are 2-2 so 4H doesn't.


Clearly a case of overthinking. So yep, I pass.

Ken

[HeartA]

joker_gib, on Sep 19 2006, 08:16 AM, said:

As the others say, you create the problem by not bidding 2♠ on 2♦

Alain

agree.

[kenberg]

whereagles, on Sep 19 2006, 10:03 AM, said:

Not surprisingly, pard's hand was no where near a 2♠ bid: Qxxxx QTx x KTxx

I gave a little thought to this. What hand could he have that would justify his bidding? He did not open 2S, but he bid spades twice, on his own, not in the balance position. Moreover, from your post, you apparently allow a 2S opening on at least some five card suits.

The only thing I could come up with is a diamond fit: He reasons "Partner will know I do not have six so he will conclude my 2S bid offers the choice of 2S if he has, say, Kx, or he can retreat to 3D if needed."

Well, NOT. Basically nothing is at it seems here and an intelligent choice is impossible.

[HeartA]

whereagles, on Sep 19 2006, 09:43 AM, said:

2. Passing and bidding spades later shows 9-11 hcp, since with 12+ you bid spades straight away.

I don't buy this logic. If you opened, you opened. And if you have support for pd's suit, support sooner than later. Besides, the HCPs are good, AK plus K in pd's suit.

whereagles, on Sep 19 2006, 09:43 AM, said:

3. The auction won't die in 2♥. The 2♦ is forcing, remember? I will balance 2♠ over 2♥. Note that by bidding like this opps won't even know the extent of my fit. That might retract them from going to 3♥.

Whether 2D would die or not, show suport for pd's suit sooner is later than later. That's why you have this problem hence the post here.

whereagles, on Sep 19 2006, 09:43 AM, said:

4. Given pard is a person who bids way too much when he has a fit, tactically the bid seems even more justified.

There is one thing against not bidding spades: it makes it much harder to find a sacrifice over opps' 4♥. But that is a risk I took considering pard is an overbidder.

Whether pd is an overbidder or not, support the support.

[whereagles]

Kenberg: you're right. No use in trying to deduce something from pard's (over)bidding. He just likes to "take the push".

[whereagles]

HeartA, on Sep 19 2006, 06:57 PM, said:

1. I don't buy this logic. If you opened, you opened. And if you have support for pd's suit, support sooner than later. Besides, the HCPs are good, AK plus K in pd's suit.

2. Whether 2D would die or not, show suport for pd's suit sooner is later than later. That's why you have this problem hence the post here.

1. There's a difference between a normal 11-20 opening and a 3rd seat light opening. Supporting with support is all fine and dandy but it's not automatic to do so, though I agree that if pard is reliable, support is obvious.

2. That's too dogmatic. There are cases where, for tactical reasons, you shouldn't support even with a suitable hand. The only dogma that always works in bridge is "to think."