[kenberg]

whereagles, on Sep 19 2006, 02:01 PM, said:

Kenberg: you're right. No use in trying to deduce something from pard's (over)bidding. He just likes to "take the push".

I certainly would not bid as your partner did. I do not understand it. But I also think the partnership has a more fundamental problem. I would not play with someone if I felt I always had to take into account that he is an overbidder. I also would not play with someone who felt he constantly had to adjust his bidding to my overbidding.

Some fifty years ago I was dating a girl who was never ready on time. So if we had to be somewhere at 8, I told her 7:30. Practical maybe, but not respectful. This didn't last long. Generally I think you either respect your partner, and he respects you, or you find a new one.

Ken

[HeartA]

kenberg, on Sep 19 2006, 03:22 PM, said:

I certainly would not bid as your partner did. I do not understand it. But I also think the partnership has a more fundamental problem. I would not play with someone if I felt I always had to take into account that he is an overbidder. I also would not play with someone who felt he constantly had to adjust his bidding to my overbidding.

I was going to say something similar to that, but deleted it before I finished typing, thinking it might be harsh.

[kenberg]

HeartA, on Sep 19 2006, 07:42 PM, said:

kenberg, on Sep 19 2006, 03:22 PM, said:

I certainly would not bid as your partner did. I do not understand it. But I also think the partnership has a more fundamental problem. I would not play with someone if I felt I always had to take into account that he is an overbidder. I also would not play with someone who felt he constantly had to adjust his bidding to my overbidding.

I was going to say something similar to that, but deleted it before I finished typing, thinking it might be harsh.

Perhaps I should have done the same. Posting opinions is both more public and moe troublesome than f2f conversation. I apologize for any offense.

Ken

[zasanya]

I do not find anything wrong with the original poster's idea of opening 1♦ then passing instead of bidding 2♠.
I would have bid 3♠ now even if P is a known overbidder.
What I really want to know from whereeagles is would he consider opening 1♠ especially if playing Drury?Would that be a better tactical bid?

[catatonic]

3♠ ; the chance of this making is greater than than of 4♥ making which tips the balance

[whereagles]

kenberg, on Sep 19 2006, 08:22 PM, said:

1. I would not play with someone if I felt I always had to take into account that he is an overbidder. I also would not play with someone who felt he constantly had to adjust his bidding to my overbidding.

2. Generally I think you either respect your partner, and he respects you, or you find a new one.

1. Well, not all players are reliable and of good technical level. Adjusting to a pard with a different style/level is a facet of the game only covered by textbooks from Zia

2. I learned with the years to be more diplomatic and to put up with pard's mistakes. After all, he's only trying to do what he thinks it's best at the time. Obviously, there are occasions when your patience really gets tested... about a month ago this guy single-handedly lost 70 imps on 24 board match I didn't say a word.

[whereagles]

zasanya, on Sep 20 2006, 03:02 AM, said:

1. I do not find anything wrong with the original poster's idea of opening 1♦ then passing instead of bidding 2♠.

2. What I really want to know from whereeagles is would he consider opening 1♠ especially if playing Drury?Would that be a better tactical bid?

1. Thx

2. Well.. 1♠ does block the heart suit, but I preferred 1♦ because of the lead-directing value and also because I don't want pard to support my spades with xxx, even playing Drury (which we were). Swap the hand to AKxx xx Kxxx xxx and it's an obvious 1♠ opening.

[kenberg]

whereagles, on Sep 20 2006, 04:38 AM, said:

kenberg, on Sep 19 2006, 08:22 PM, said:

1. I would not play with someone if I felt I always had to take into account that he is an overbidder. I also would not play with someone who felt he constantly had to adjust his bidding to my overbidding.

2. Generally I think you either respect your partner, and he respects you, or you find a new one.

1. Well, not all players are reliable and of good technical level. Adjusting to a pard with a different style/level is a facet of the game only covered by textbooks from Zia

2. I learned with the years to be more diplomatic and to put up with pard's mistakes. After all, he's only trying to do what he thinks it's best at the time. Obviously, there are occasions when your patience really gets tested... about a month ago this guy single-handedly lost 70 imps on 24 board match I didn't say a word.

Fair enough. We all make our decisions about who we want to partner, based of a whole collection of factors. It's not for me to say how someone else should make his choices.

Btw. I have read Zia's "My Life in Bridge" (I think that's the title) and Rosenberg's "Bridge, Zia and Me". Obviously I am never mistaken for either of these guys, but my emotional rapport is towards MR rather than Zia. Zia is one of those great players who I am sure would drive me absolutely nuts. Rosenberg tells many stories. Playing money bridge Zia opened 3C and MR raised to five, doubled. Instead of playing out the hand, Zia negotiated down 3 without showing his hand. Since he had opened 3C on a four card suit, this was a profitable negotiation. There is absolutely no point in telling myself I should learn how to do such things.

K

[bid_em_up]

whereagles, on Sep 19 2006, 08:17 AM, said:

Can we agree on discussing what to bid now, instead of arguing what should have been?

In a word, No.

You chose to open this hand. Once you choose to do so, you have two options. Either you never take another call (It is highly unlikely that there is any game possible) or if partner happens to bid second your suit, you raise immediately.

Why? Several reasons. You've opened a dog. You have absolutely no reason to encourage partner whatsoever. Especially when you already "know" he is an overbidder. Any subsequent call you take will simply encourage him to bid on. Passing and bidding later, just exposes your side to unnecessary penalties. You deny a four card fit. You provide opponents with the opportunity to exchange info at a lower level. There are others, but those are the ones that pop into mind immediately.

whereagles said:

I learned with the years to be more diplomatic and to put up with pard's mistakes. After all, he's only trying to do what he thinks it's best at the time. Obviously, there are occasions when your patience really gets tested... about a month ago this guy single-handedly lost 70 imps on 24 board match  I didn't say a word.

I seriously doubt this. It is fairly clear (at least to me) that he had plenty of help. You underbid since you do not trust his bidding (maybe rightfully so). He seeing that you underbid, and then overbids in an attempt to (over) compensate. And on goes the downward spiral. It is good that you didnt say a word, though.

My suggestion is to go back to playing bridge.....either he tires of going for big numbers, you get tired of him going for big numbers and find a compatible partner, or you both learn to play bridge for real. Right now, it appears that you are just jerking each others chains.

[whereagles]

Ahem.. bid_em_up, sorry but I think you're just being ridiculous. You don't even know me or the other guy.

[bid_em_up]

whereagles, on Sep 23 2006, 02:41 AM, said:

Ahem.. bid_em_up, sorry but I think you're just being ridiculous. You don't even know me or the other guy.

Sorry, but I am simply drawing normal inferences from what you are stating in your own posts. I do not have to "know" you or your partner to reach these conclusions.

You claim he overbids. Its clear (to me anyway) that his doing so IS influencing your bidding decisions (in your own words). While he may be an overbidder by nature, you should not attempt to compensate for it by underbidding yourself. Isnt this what you claim to be doing?

If neither partner can trust his partners bidding, you will usually never be able to reach the right contract. Nor can you expect him to learn anything, because he sees you open this hand, and then pass, and then try to compete later. In doing so, you are simply encouraging him to bid on, because evidently, he does not understand the pass and bid situation that you describe.

But....good luck in your partnership.

[whereagles]

There are some partners it's no use trying to teach them anything. All you can do is adapt to them and try to do the best under the circumstances. Kinda like the hideous hog and the rabbit.

[Apollo81]

whereagles, on Sep 19 2006, 11:03 AM, said:

humpf.. ok. I see this is getting out of control. I thought people would appreciate more of tactical bidding. Guess I was wrong.

Well, in case you're interested, in practice bidding 3♠ grants you -300 (LHO will double with AJT of spades), while passing goes for -170. Opps are cold for 4♥ but they weren't going to bid it. However, most of the field did bid 4, so -300 would score 60%. Not surprisingly, pard's hand was no where near a 2♠ bid: Qxxxx QTx x KTxx

Auto 2♠; given the pass, auto 3♠.

Partner is obviously nuts.

[hrothgar]

whereagles, on Sep 25 2006, 01:08 AM, said:

There are some partners it's no use trying to teach them anything. All you can do is adapt to them and try to do the best under the circumstances. Kinda like the hideous hog and the rabbit.

The Hideous Hog was cutting for partner's at rubber bridge.

Presumably you have some choice in the matter.