A and C anytime, B in 3rd or 4th seat anytime and D only in 3rd seat with a weak 2S bid, non-vul vs vul.
When to open? Counting points or...?
#21
Posted 2006-September-13, 10:04
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
#22
Posted 2006-September-13, 15:51
I think every answer except "none of the above" works in at least one of my partnerships (and I could see none of the above if I played Fantoni-Nunes type methods too). In particular:
(1) Playing two-over-one in any number of semi-regular partnerships, I would open only A. This is because I expect partner to force to game on a good twelve or any thirteen without a spade fit, and if a diamond fit fails to materialize as well (give partner Jx AKxxx xx KQxx for example) then I'll get into trouble if I opened C. My partners will open pretty light in 3rd/4th especially if holding 4+♠, which tends to protect the initial pass on hands C and D.
(2) Playing what could loosely be called standard american with Elianna (including a number of Italian conventions like Gazilli) I would open A and C. The nice thing about these methods is that partner can make a 2/1 with misfitting hands and still stop short of game when a misfit is discovered.
(3) Playing strong club and light openings with Sam, I would open A, C, and D. Once again our decisions whether to game force on a non-fitting hand are delayed a round, allowing the misfit to be evaluated. In fact if Sam held the aforementioned Jx AKxxx xx KQxx, our auction opposite hands C or D would be 1♠-2♥-2♠-Pass. Note that we are not particularly aggressive about opening balanced hands, and would not really consider opening hand B (balanced hands need to be worth a game bid opposite a 13-count from partner).
(4) Playing strong diamond and light openings with David, I would consider opening C and D only (the other response). Our 1M openings guarantee unbalanced shape, so hands A and B aren't possible 1♠ bids. Our 2/1 structures are similar to what I play with Sam. We typically pass balanced 12-counts at vulnerable, although I would consider upgrading hand A to show 13-15 balanced. At NV we play 10-12 notrumps so I would open all four hands.
(5) Playing strong club and light openings with Josh Sher, I would definitely consider opening A, B, and C. We play game forcing 2/1 bids, but the misfitting hand (Jx AKxxx xx KQxx) is probably not strong enough to make one. Our opening range is generally 10-14 in 1st/2nd seat. This makes my opening philosophy similar to what I'd open playing 2/1, except that I'm basically "adding a queen" which brings hand B into the opening range but creates the same problems with hand D that a straight 2/1 approach might have with hand C.
Anyways I thought this was an interesting survey. The results seem to indicate that people are willing to open about 2-3 points light with a 5-5 hand, which seems to me that it could get them in trouble if they play an approach where partner must immediately decide whether to game force (either via 2/1 GFing or a GF relay) without knowledge of side suit fits. Then again my opinions are decidedly non-mainstream in this regard.
(1) Playing two-over-one in any number of semi-regular partnerships, I would open only A. This is because I expect partner to force to game on a good twelve or any thirteen without a spade fit, and if a diamond fit fails to materialize as well (give partner Jx AKxxx xx KQxx for example) then I'll get into trouble if I opened C. My partners will open pretty light in 3rd/4th especially if holding 4+♠, which tends to protect the initial pass on hands C and D.
(2) Playing what could loosely be called standard american with Elianna (including a number of Italian conventions like Gazilli) I would open A and C. The nice thing about these methods is that partner can make a 2/1 with misfitting hands and still stop short of game when a misfit is discovered.
(3) Playing strong club and light openings with Sam, I would open A, C, and D. Once again our decisions whether to game force on a non-fitting hand are delayed a round, allowing the misfit to be evaluated. In fact if Sam held the aforementioned Jx AKxxx xx KQxx, our auction opposite hands C or D would be 1♠-2♥-2♠-Pass. Note that we are not particularly aggressive about opening balanced hands, and would not really consider opening hand B (balanced hands need to be worth a game bid opposite a 13-count from partner).
(4) Playing strong diamond and light openings with David, I would consider opening C and D only (the other response). Our 1M openings guarantee unbalanced shape, so hands A and B aren't possible 1♠ bids. Our 2/1 structures are similar to what I play with Sam. We typically pass balanced 12-counts at vulnerable, although I would consider upgrading hand A to show 13-15 balanced. At NV we play 10-12 notrumps so I would open all four hands.
(5) Playing strong club and light openings with Josh Sher, I would definitely consider opening A, B, and C. We play game forcing 2/1 bids, but the misfitting hand (Jx AKxxx xx KQxx) is probably not strong enough to make one. Our opening range is generally 10-14 in 1st/2nd seat. This makes my opening philosophy similar to what I'd open playing 2/1, except that I'm basically "adding a queen" which brings hand B into the opening range but creates the same problems with hand D that a straight 2/1 approach might have with hand C.
Anyways I thought this was an interesting survey. The results seem to indicate that people are willing to open about 2-3 points light with a 5-5 hand, which seems to me that it could get them in trouble if they play an approach where partner must immediately decide whether to game force (either via 2/1 GFing or a GF relay) without knowledge of side suit fits. Then again my opinions are decidedly non-mainstream in this regard.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#23
Posted 2006-September-13, 18:12
"Anyways I thought this was an interesting survey. The results seem to indicate that people are willing to open about 2-3 points light with a 5-5 hand, which seems to me that it could get them in trouble if they play an approach where partner must immediately decide whether to game force (either via 2/1 GFing or a GF relay) without knowledge of side suit fits. Then again my opinions are decidedly non-mainstream in this regard."
I share your dislike of 2/1, though I play it (when in Rome...). Your objection above is valid, but the horrible 1NT forcing convention is to me a far worse defect.
That said, I open hands like C playing 2/1. The downside of passing seems worse than the occasional bad 2NT/3NT contract. Mileage may vary.
Peter
I share your dislike of 2/1, though I play it (when in Rome...). Your objection above is valid, but the horrible 1NT forcing convention is to me a far worse defect.
That said, I open hands like C playing 2/1. The downside of passing seems worse than the occasional bad 2NT/3NT contract. Mileage may vary.
Peter
#24
Posted 2006-September-14, 06:38
A is a clear opener in the classical way.Everybody would like to open other shapely two suiters even though they do not conform to the minimum classical requirement of 12+ points.
I think the matter can be easily resolved if one plays Tartans/RCOs and multi 2♦.Then all these hands can be opened without compromising on the classical requirement of 12 points and 2 defensive tricks.
This of course cannot be done in pick up partnerships.I wonder why very few regular partnerships play Tartans with multi 2♦.
I think the matter can be easily resolved if one plays Tartans/RCOs and multi 2♦.Then all these hands can be opened without compromising on the classical requirement of 12 points and 2 defensive tricks.
This of course cannot be done in pick up partnerships.I wonder why very few regular partnerships play Tartans with multi 2♦.
Aniruddha
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
"Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius".
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
"Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius".
#25
Posted 2006-September-14, 19:46
"This of course cannot be done in pick up partnerships.I wonder why very few regular partnerships play Tartans with multi 2D."
You are again misstating what Tartan 2 bids are. Please look them up in the Encyclopedia or Chris Ryall's web site to avoid confusing posters.
You are again misstating what Tartan 2 bids are. Please look them up in the Encyclopedia or Chris Ryall's web site to avoid confusing posters.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#26
Posted 2006-September-14, 22:01
bid_em_up, on Sep 13 2006, 08:10 AM, said:
I will assume we are referring to first/second seat openings in a 2/1 context.
Why do you assume that?
Wayne Burrows
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#27
Posted 2006-September-14, 22:05
I open all of them - although I answered A and C.
B and D I open with a weak two.
B and D I open with a weak two.
Wayne Burrows
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon

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