[kgr]

Scoring: MP

---

1♠-1NT
2♣-??
MP's.
2♣ is 12-17 (3♣ would have been GF).
Do you bid Pass, 2♦ or 2♠ now?

[hrothgar]

Its MP

2♠ seems clear

[HeartA]

MP or IMP, pass is absolutely out. I would bid 2S reluctantly.

[inquiry]

If SAYC, I would try 2D here. However, if it was 2/1 GF (so forcing 1NT), I will bid 2S.

[mike777]

2s easy I would never consider 2D natural..but close to 2D bart but not that close.

[the hog]

2S. Never pass and not 2D. Why risk a 5-1 or 5-0 fit?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

2D is out, it should show a 6 card.
Either Pass or bid 2S, I prefer 2S,
since I believe 5-2 plays better
than 4-3.

Add., 2C may have been made on
3 card suit, which makes a 2S bid
even more clearer.

The only other option wirth considering,
altough a very distand option is 2NT,
which would be an overbid, but hey.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Gpm_bg]

bidding 2♦ could force partner to pass even fit 5-1 and you could miss safety game 5-2♠ and mostly 2♠=3♦ as score but not at levels.
2♣ shouldnt' be more then 14, so 2♠ for me too as previous posters is logical and good bid.

If your partner hold 5-0-4-4 will be missed game probably on 5♦, but who knows


better chicken in hand then eagle in sky

[chicken]

Gpm_bg, on Aug 29 2006, 02:22 AM, said:

better chicken in hand then eagle in sky 

what?

[whereagles]

Quite the textbook 2♠. No real reason to deviate from that.

[SoTired]

whereagles, on Aug 29 2006, 05:43 AM, said:

Quite the textbook 2♠. No real reason to deviate from that.

Right, absolutely textbook. Could be right from examples page. Not even a 2s/4c decision to make.

The 2M rebids shows 5-7 with 3-card support or 6-10 with 2-card support. That is the system. Opener with <16 passes and with 16-17 may bid 2N. (This answer assumes system is 2/1).

This post has been edited by SoTired: 2006-August-29, 06:02

[kgr]

Scoring: MP

---

This was bid by opps at local club tournement (MP's) at other table:
1S-1NT
2C-2D
3C-3NT
discussed at the bar.
Seems like 2S iso 2D was the obvious bid. Or Pass iso 3NT because with a stronger hand North would have bid 2NT or 2H (4th suit forcing).

[inquiry]

P_Marlowe, on Aug 29 2006, 01:40 AM, said:

2D is out, it should show a 6 card.
Either Pass or bid 2S, I prefer 2S,
since I believe 5-2 plays better
than 4-3.

this post is in SAYC and 2/1 Discussion board.

Playing 2/1, where 1NT is forcing, I absolutely agree, bidding 2♦ is wrong. But if 1NT was SAYC (balanced hand, up to 10 hcp), then

1) 2D does not promise a six card suit
2) 2D does not suggest a singleton spade

Now, I know a lot of people who playing SAYC would have responded 2♦, and probably rightfully so. But if this was an SAYC auction (I don't play SAYC unless there is no other choice), would any of you 2S bidders consider 2D over 2C? Forward going, diamond suit?

KGR... do you play 4th suit forcing by opener? I have seen this treatment, but isn't fourth suit forcing generally a convention for responder? Thoughts?

[P_Marlowe]

inquiry, on Aug 29 2006, 08:35 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Aug 29 2006, 01:40 AM, said:

2D is out, it should show a 6 card.
Either Pass or bid 2S, I prefer 2S,
since I believe 5-2 plays better
than 4-3.

this post is in SAYC and 2/1 Discussion board.

Playing 2/1, where 1NT is forcing, I absolutely agree, bidding 2♦ is wrong. But if 1NT was SAYC (balanced hand, up to 10 hcp), then

1) 2D does not promise a six card suit
2) 2D does not suggest a singleton spade

<snip>

Hi Ben,

Re 1)
the remark, that 2D shows a 6 card suit
was intended for 2/1 and for SAYC.

If opener showed 9 cards, responders 1st
task is to give preference, if he introduces
a suit of his own, it is a sign of bid, and should
therefore be a 6 card suit.

Re 2)
I have never clamed that.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Gerben42]

I don't understand the part where suddenly in SAYC you are going to bid 2♦ on this kind of hand. I know many do but I think it is very wrong and even more wrong to do so now than in a 2/1 context. Why?

REPEAT AFTER ME:

When partner has shown an unbalanced hand we do not suggest 5-card suits to play in.

THANK YOU.

Bidding 2♦ here in SAYC style is asking for mini-Moysian fits. So I bid 2♠.

The "but I had 5 of them" gang will also no doubt rebid 2♥ after say 1♦ 1♥ 2♣ or similar. Same principle.

[kgr]

inquiry, on Aug 29 2006, 03:35 PM, said:

KGR... do you play 4th suit forcing by opener? I  have seen this treatment, but isn't fourth suit forcing generally a convention for responder? Thoughts?

We play 4th suit always - responder and opener - forcing/artificial.
Not sure if this is standard/best.

[paulhar]

Count me in the 2S camp too. Seems pretty clear to me. If partner bids again, I accept the game invitation.

By the way, I think that bidding over 2D with opener's hand in kqr's example is a joke. I hope 3NT got set several.

[P_Marlowe]

inquiry, on Aug 29 2006, 08:35 AM, said:

<snip>
KGR... do you play 4th suit forcing by opener? I  have seen this treatment, but isn't fourth suit forcing generally a convention for responder? Thoughts?
<snip>

I play it also, and it even gets suggested by Roth,
he calls those bids "mark-time" bids, i.e. it is not
a knew concept.

With kind regards
Marlowe