[starfruit]

Hi I've just played a team match when this comes up :

Hand 1:

Scoring: IMP

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Dealer opened 1♥, and now it's my turn.
Unfortunately I don't really know my opponent's style.
Question is, is this an overcall of 1♠ at this vul? what about over 1♣/♦?

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Hand 2:

N    E    S   W
-     -      -   P
P    1♣  P   1♦
P   1NT ?

Scoring: IMP

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If 2♣ here would be natural, would you overcall? What are your considerations?

[P_Marlowe]

1) Yes, you have spades, tell partner
2) No, the suit is to weak, a natural 2C
overcall over a natural 1C opening should
show a 6 card suit
Add. minus: You have diamonds, responders
suit, i.e. all suits will break badly.
Let them try to make 7 tricks

With kind regards
Marlowe

[inquiry]

1. Yes. Easy

2. No. Easy. Your clubs are too weak and ask yourself where are the hearts? Also who has four spades?

[HeartA]

inquiry, on Aug 14 2006, 11:18 AM, said:

1. Yes. Easy

2. No. Easy. Your clubs are too weak and ask yourself where are the hearts? Also who has four spades?

ditto.

[neilkaz]

Hand 1 is a garbage spade overcall, but it seems best to get the spade suit into the picture now, rather than passing. Vulnerability doesn't affect my decision to overcall at the 1 level. If PD passes here I won't criticize.

Hand 2 is a CLEAR pass to me, and vulnerable, if responder has a few clubs, things could be quite serious.

.. neilkaz ..

[Winstonm]

For me it is No, No.

I ask myself these questions: what is the purpose of an overcall? Hand 1.
A) To indicate a lead - Fail
B) To compete for you own game - Fail
C) To compete for a partscore - Pass

I don't really relish a spade lead. If partner can't act over my pass we do not have a game. We may be able to compete for the partscore, but the suit and shape and vulnerability are all bad and I really don't want to be raised on xxx of spades and a random 8 count.

We may lose a partscore which is not good, but we won't lose 800 against nothing on for them which is a catastrophe - so for me descretion is the better part of valor and I pass.

Hand 2 is in the wrong spot - although RHO has limited his hand LHO has not - just too risky without an exceptional suit here.

[P_Marlowe]

Winstonm, on Aug 14 2006, 06:32 PM, said:

<snip>
Hand 2 is in the wrong spot - although RHO has limited his hand LHO has not - just too risky without an exceptional suit here.
<snip>

Not that it matters a lot,
but LHO, RHO are both limited,
LHO by the NT rebid, RHO by his
first pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Codo]

I am getting older, so I stop bidding so lousy suits opposite a non passed partner, so I will pass in both cases, but I willl never burn partner for a 1 Spade bid with the first hand.

2 Club in the second case has just one advantage: It stops pd to balance with a 5 card heart suit which may be weaker then my clubs. But the downsides are much bigger, so this is a clear pass at any time and any beer level.

[Free]

1. pass, easy: you have a ridiculous ♠ suit, wait a round unless you play FREEWILL overcalls.
2. pass, very easy: you don't have good ♣ and opener is likely to have some (unless they play walsch).

[whereagles]

Interesting hands.

1. At imps 1♠ isn't automatic. Still, I'd do it most of the time, and pass if I needed a swing or against trigger-happy opponents. It's really dependent on table presence.

2. This one is fishy. From the bidding, pard is marked with 7-10 points and the majors. Why didn't he double 1♦? Well, maybe he has most of his hcp in the minors. That would make 2♣ now a relatively save bid. Overcall, thus, with pass as an alternative if LHO seems to be aching to bid

[awm]

1. I would bid. I admit that this isn't 100% safe, but I've found that passing hands with five spades and marginal values at the one-level usually fares poorly at any form of scoring.

2. I'd pass this one. The diamonds are weak and poorly placed, and my 2♣ bid wouldn't stop partner from introducing a heart suit if that's what he's going to do. Partner probably has five hearts and didn't bid them, which is a sign that maybe partner has a weak hand and LHO may be about to invite. The opponents' game may go off on the bad breaks and I don't want to clue them in (and/or get doubled in 2♣ instead), and if it's a partscore deal there's no strong reason to think it's our partscore deal. No reason to stick my neck out vulnerable at IMPs opposite a passed hand.

[mikeh]

awm, on Aug 15 2006, 01:10 PM, said:

1. I would bid. I admit that this isn't 100% safe, but I've found that passing hands with five spades and marginal values at the one-level usually fares poorly at any form of scoring.

2. I'd pass this one. The diamonds are weak and poorly placed, and my 2♣ bid wouldn't stop partner from introducing a heart suit if that's what he's going to do. Partner probably has five hearts and didn't bid them, which is a sign that maybe partner has a weak hand and LHO may be about to invite. The opponents' game may go off on the bad breaks and I don't want to clue them in (and/or get doubled in 2♣ instead), and if it's a partscore deal there's no strong reason to think it's our partscore deal. No reason to stick my neck out vulnerable at IMPs opposite a passed hand.

agreed

[starfruit]

Thanks for the responses!
On board 1 I overcalled 1♠, but it didn't really mattered. Opponents are cold for 5♥ and it was my lead.
It was only during the post mortem that my partner got a little unhappy with my overcall. He believed that at this vul I should have a better suit. Perhaps it's more about style?
(Anyway we went on to an agreement : either any opening strength or SQ(suit quality)7 if around 10 HCP with shape.)

For board 2, well obviously I did overcall and disaster struck. Here's the hand :

Scoring: IMP

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After I overcall 2♣, LHO doubled(meaning unclear) and partner did not fail to get 2♥ on the table in less than 1sec. That got doubled and we went for 500.

My original thought was that 1NT was a difficult contract to defend and I was hoping to push them to a suit contract at the 2 lvl. Now I'm convinced that it's a wrong action...
Team mates played 1NT -1 btw.

[jtfanclub]

starfruit, on Aug 15 2006, 02:00 PM, said:

After I overcall 2♣, LHO doubled(meaning unclear) and partner did not fail to get 2♥ on the table in less than 1sec. That got doubled and we went for 500.

My original thought was that 1NT was a difficult contract to defend and I was hoping to push them to a suit contract at the 2 lvl. Now I'm convinced that it's a wrong action...
Team mates played 1NT -1 btw.

I think your partner's got a fine XX bid (SOS), correcting diamonds to hearts. You end up in 2♠. Not a good result, but not 500 either.

I think part of the question should be, assuming that if you pass LHO passes, is your partner going to bid 2♥? If the answer is yes, then you have a double winner in bidding 2♣- you may get to play there (it's not impossible that you'll make) and you may get to play in spades rather than hearts.

If he's going to pass with that sort of hand, then looks like the right bid is passing with yours. Me, I gave up on minor suit Michaels, so I bid 2♣ the first time if I'm going to say anything. That makes life easy...if I didn't bid over 1♣, I'm sure not going to bid over 1NT.

[the hog]

On hand 1 1S at any vulnerability, at any form of the game. Passing these hands is a losing strategy.
Winston:
"I ask myself these questions: what is the purpose of an overcall? Hand 1.
A) To indicate a lead - Fail
To compete for you own game - Fail
C) To compete for a partscore - Pass"

I cannot understand this. Who says pd is going to be on lead? If he is, a S lead may well be best.
Who says we don't have a game?
How on earth can you compete for a part score when you apss. If you come in later, you have given the opponents MORE time to exchange information, making the balancing bid more dangerous.

As for Frederick. You are getting old!

Hand 2 - pass.

[whereagles]

The_Hog, on Aug 16 2006, 03:32 AM, said:

If you come in later, you have given the opponents MORE time to exchange information, making the balancing bid more dangerous.

This is a very important principle that, unfortunately, most textbooks neglect to mention.

If this were written in page 3 of a common textbook on overcalls, I'm sure 90% of the people would overcall.

[DWM]

One thing I thought of bidding for the first hand was 2♥ to show spades and a minor.

My thinking before I made this bid would be.

I know that I am 5-4-2-2 and 5-4-3-1, or 5-5 in the two suits would be better. However, all my points are good and in the two suits.
Pard knows I could be 5-4. I could have a min of 9 points if being preemptive (ok, if being preemptive ideally I should have more shape.)
At a lower level; bids like this seem to get opposition all flustered, may be not the best argument, but it is true.
This bid would get the whole of my hand out at once, or at least to an extent where I am only answering questions.

I assume that it is not a good bid as no one else has mentioned it. I have made calls like this in the past because, on the whole, I have gotten away with it (expect when I mess up the card play). So my question is what changes would I need on this hand to make it suitable for such a pre-meptive bid.

[the hog]

As you are forcing to the 2 level in S and the 3 level in C, you need a better S suit and more shape.
This would be be acceptable for me nv vs v
KJxxx
xx
x
AQxxx

[cherdano]

Here is a hand mentioned by Edgar Kaplan in an "interview" in the most recent bridge world: He claimed it's a losing proposition to overcall 1♠ over 1♦ with KTxxx xx Qx Axxx. The hand in this thread is somewhat stronger though, and I am sure I wouldn't pass it.

Arend

[whereagles]

Well, that's Kaplan story is funny because I'm pretty sure Zia would overcall 1♠ over 1♦ without the slightest hesitation. The reason: the ♦Qx, which might lead to declarer misguessing a diamond finesse into the short hand