[flytoox]

This topic is related to the hand i gave earlier. The auction goes:

W N E S
1H P 1S
P 2D P 3D(?)

If 3d is defined as forcing(at least forcing 1 round), then that hand will be easily bid to 6d.

So question here is, should 3D be forcing?

Sure there may be some hand wishing to raise to 3D but not good enough to gf. Then maybe we can define 3c as a weak raise, and 3D is gf raise. 3C as 4th gf is too space consuming here. Also, it is very rare that with a hand good for game without a club stopper and you cannt bid 3n.


Any comments?

[bhugi]

Quote

This topic is related to the hand i gave earlier. The auction goes:

W N E S
1H P 1S
P 2D P 3D(?)

If 3d is defined as forcing(at least forcing 1 round), then that hand will be easily bid to 6d.

So question here is, should 3D be forcing?

Sure there may be some hand wishing to raise to 3D but not good enough to gf. Then maybe we can define 3c as a weak raise, and 3D is gf raise. 3C as 4th gf is too space consuming here. Also, it is very rare that with a hand good for game without a club stopper and you cannt bid 3n.


Any comments?

4-2-4-3 xxx club ..

What are you forcing for ? Game? Slam?
For game just bid 3C, looking for 3 card of spade support or club stopper or more diamond to play in 4S, 3NT, 5D respectively.

Since my 4th suit is GF.
For diamond slam, just bid 3C and bid again 4D to show GF slam interest.

[mishovnbg]

If you like to understand best way to bid by 3m forcing to 4m raise, read about TSAR by Jeff Rubens. It is invented for 1m-1M, 2m-? but can be use in any similar sequence like this 8).
Misho

[flytoox]

Quote

If you like to understand best way to bid by 3m forcing to 4m raise, read about TSAR by Jeff Rubens. It is invented for 1m-1M, 2m-? but can be use in any similar sequence like this 8).
Misho

Misho, i think this is different from 1m-1M-2m-? I read about Tsar, but didnt find about this sequence. Or did i miss something?

[inquiry]

I played Tsar, and have recently switched to the simplified Tsar that Luis suggested here (thanks luis).

Having said that, I don't play the auction you listed here as forcing...

1H 1S
2D 3D 3D is NOT FORCING, but it is not sign off either, it invites

This is exactly why 4th suit forcing was invent and is used. I know the problem hand you are worried about... good four card diamond support, fair 3 card heart support, 4 spades and a doubleton club. The "too much to show" hand from another post.

[luke warm]

i can't see 3D as being forcing.. i see responder simply giving opener another chance to bid and showing a diamond fit.. the problem is, what if responder was gonna simply raise hearts? what a quandary

i do know some who eschew showing the spade suit here, depending on how many bids their hand is worth.. if the auction 1H (p) 1S (3D) p (p) would leave them in a bind (now might not be strong nuff to bid 3H showing support with only 6, 7 hcp), just bid 2H immediately... i also know some who bid 1NT forcing, with 4 card spade suit

[Trpltrbl]

Quote

I played Tsar, and have recently switched to the simplified Tsar that Luis suggested here (thanks luis).

Having said that, I don't play the auction you listed here as forcing...

1H 1S
2D 3D 3D is NOT FORCING, but it is not sign off either, it invites

This is exactly why 4th suit forcing was invent and is used. I know the problem hand you are worried about... good four card diamond support, fair 3 card heart support, 4 spades and a doubleton club. The "too much to show" hand from another post.

3 D is in my book just slightly invitational, 4 th suit is always GF. Pd already showed a hand that is unbalanced or a hand that is good but not good enough for 2 NT or 3 D bid. So lets find out.

Mike ;D