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Scoring: IMP
West North East South
Pass Pass Pass 1♦
Pass 1♠ Pass 2NT
Pass Pass Pass
What would you open this hand and why Opinions please
#1
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Posted 2006-August-13, 07:39
West North East South
Pass Pass Pass 1♦
Pass 1♠ Pass 2NT
Pass Pass Pass
#2
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Posted 2006-August-13, 07:52
You can open 1D or 2NT, assuming 2NT, assuiming
2NT shows 20-??, the hand is certaily worth a
upgrade.
But it should not really matter, since after the 2NT
rebid simply bid game (red, IMPs), looking for 5-3
fit in spades however you do it.
With kind regards
Marlowe
2NT shows 20-??, the hand is certaily worth a
upgrade.
But it should not really matter, since after the 2NT
rebid simply bid game (red, IMPs), looking for 5-3
fit in spades however you do it.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#3
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Posted 2006-August-13, 07:55
I'd open 1♦, the hand is not quite good enough for my 2nt opening.
After 1♠ I would jump to 3nt.
After 1♠ I would jump to 3nt.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
#4
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Posted 2006-August-13, 08:03
ok next question, why 3nt not 2nt as 2NT describes my hand perfectly (if you have chosen not to upgrade to 2NT
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Posted 2006-August-13, 08:15
I do tend to overbid but on this hand I have 3 Aces, rock solid ♦'s - I only need 1 or 2 tricks from partner.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
#6
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Posted 2006-August-13, 08:23
jillybean2, on Aug 13 2006, 09:15 AM, said:
I do tend to overbid but on this hand I have 3 Aces, rock solid ♦'s - I only need 1 or 2 tricks from partner.
A 3NT rebid assumes, that partner never
responds on sub. min. values.
With 1 1/2 tricks partner will raise, he knows
we are red and playing IMP.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#7
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Posted 2006-August-13, 08:38
jb - why is it first not good enough for a 2NT opening, and then too good for a jump to 2NT? I don't understand.
Peter
Peter
#8
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Posted 2006-August-13, 09:05
a 3NT rebid shows a completely different hand, so 1♦ followed by 2NT is perfect. North should just checkback or bid 3NT...
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
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Posted 2006-August-13, 09:13
If a 2NT opening showed 20 HCP, I'd open 2NT
Alderaan delenda est
#10
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Posted 2006-August-13, 09:25
I guess I would consider opening 2NT bu I probably wouldn't do it. The hands as they are will make either 3N or 5D, and it is possible, as I contemplate my opening, that partner has a hand such that 5D is the only makeable game. So I open 1D and I think rebidding 2N is then clear. Partner can expect his Q and K to be working and his Jxxxx to be of good use guarding that suit so he could well go on. I wouldn't shoot him if he didn't but I think the responsibility for not reaching 3N lies with him.
Ken
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Posted 2006-August-13, 09:38
pbleighton, on Aug 13 2006, 07:38 AM, said:
jb - why is it first not good enough for a 2NT opening, and then too good for a jump to 2NT? I don't understand.
Peter
Peter
Sure this is a toss up between 1♣ and 2nt , I would like better ♠ before opening 2nt. After my partner bids 1♠ I'm happy to jump to game. I'd be happy to listen to why I shouldnt jump to game?
If my partner does not have enough to respond I think I'd rather play this in 1♣ than 2nt. If the opps get into the bidding and partner passes I will have trouble showing my strength and probably have to settle for a lousy 2♣ rebid.
jb
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
#12
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Posted 2006-August-13, 09:47
"I'd be happy to listen to why I shouldnt jump to game?"
Do your partner's ever respond with 5/bad 6?
Peter
Do your partner's ever respond with 5/bad 6?
Peter
#13
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Posted 2006-August-13, 09:47
2NT for me, but dont make the mistake of 1D and then 3NT rebid.
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Posted 2006-August-13, 10:27
pbleighton, on Aug 13 2006, 08:47 AM, said:
"I'd be happy to listen to why I shouldnt jump to game?"
Do your partner's ever respond with 5/bad 6?
Peter
Do your partner's ever respond with 5/bad 6?
Peter
Sure they do.
a 3NT rebid shows a completely different hand
What does a 3nt rebid show?
thanks
jb
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
#15
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Posted 2006-August-13, 10:36
jillybean2, on Aug 13 2006, 05:27 PM, said:
pbleighton, on Aug 13 2006, 08:47 AM, said:
"I'd be happy to listen to why I shouldnt jump to game?"
Do your partner's ever respond with 5/bad 6?
Peter
Do your partner's ever respond with 5/bad 6?
Peter
Sure they do.
a 3NT rebid shows a completely different hand
What does a 3nt rebid show?
thanks
jb
Slightly less HCP and a solid 6 card m...
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
#16
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Posted 2006-August-13, 10:39
#17
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Posted 2006-August-13, 11:23
"QUOTE (pbleighton @ Aug 13 2006, 08:47 AM)
"I'd be happy to listen to why I shouldnt jump to game?"
Do your partner's ever respond with 5/bad 6?
Peter
Sure they do."
Then why not let them pass 2NT when they have done so instead of jumping to 3NT?
Peter
"I'd be happy to listen to why I shouldnt jump to game?"
Do your partner's ever respond with 5/bad 6?
Peter
Sure they do."
Then why not let them pass 2NT when they have done so instead of jumping to 3NT?
Peter
#18
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Posted 2006-August-13, 11:23
I'd open a 20-21 2N. If 2N is 21-22 (stone age), then I'd open it 1♦.
A 3N rebid after a 1♦ promises at least another ♦.
A 3N rebid after a 1♦ promises at least another ♦.
"Phil" on BBO
#19
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Posted 2006-August-13, 11:36
thanks great link. Im convinced - next time I will open this 2nt 
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
#20
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Posted 2006-August-13, 12:25
When deciding whether to open this hand 1♦ or 2N, it is important to understand the purpose of counting points. This hand is only 19 hcp, and 2N (for most) requires 20-21.
Yet, imho, this is a 2N opener.
Points are a guide, an approximation, towards trick-taking ability. While this had has a flaw (the xx in ♠), the AKQ10x holding in ♦ is worth more than '9' points.
So if I were trying to fine-tune my valuation in terms of points (an exercise I never indulge in at the table, in that I wouldn't try to estimate a 'point' total for this hand, I would simply know that it was too strong for 1♦ then 2N), I would upgrade this hand to a comfortable 20...I'd downgrade for the ♠ holding, upgrade for the number of controls held and upgrade again for the ♦ suit.
Yet, imho, this is a 2N opener.
Points are a guide, an approximation, towards trick-taking ability. While this had has a flaw (the xx in ♠), the AKQ10x holding in ♦ is worth more than '9' points.
So if I were trying to fine-tune my valuation in terms of points (an exercise I never indulge in at the table, in that I wouldn't try to estimate a 'point' total for this hand, I would simply know that it was too strong for 1♦ then 2N), I would upgrade this hand to a comfortable 20...I'd downgrade for the ♠ holding, upgrade for the number of controls held and upgrade again for the ♦ suit.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari