[Echognome]

Scoring: IMP

1♣ - (Dbl) - ?

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What's your call?

Does your call change if 1♣ promised 4+ clubs?

[temp3600]

I'd start with a simple 1H in both cases.

[Winstonm]

I have no choice but redouble - my partner requires a major suit bid here to be 5+ long.

[Walddk]

1♥ in both cases (F1). I ignore the double and bid as if there has been none. No point in redoubling when you know they have a safe haven (diamonds). Let me start describing my hand now; saves room compared to waiting.

Roland

[Echognome]

Forgot to add "other (please explain)" to the poll if one of the moderators wouldn't mind.

[Winstonm]

Thanks for the post - it has partner and I realizing we have a problem - either of us likes starting with redouble but he is adamant (due to potential bad splits) about bidding only 5-card majors. A possible solution we are discussing is using crisscross raises here are game forcing minor raises.

[Cascade]

We are in the "Other" category.

Our system bid is 2♥ showing 4+ ♥ 4+♣ and at least game invitational values.

[P_Marlowe]

1H, and no this would still be my call,
even if 1C would be a 4 card suit.

The only alternatie would be 2NT as limit
or better raise for clubs.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Free]

You always forget one, and you always forget to give us another choice!

1♠ = GF 4+♥, can have longer m

1♣ showed 15+ any distribution

[1eyedjack]

Winstonm, on Jul 29 2006, 03:35 AM, said:

I have no choice but redouble - my partner requires a major suit bid here to be 5+ long.

I think I would be happy to play in Hearts in a 4-4 fit. It is a bit unlikely to happen, but I still respond 1H (or 1D if playing transfers).

[helene_t]

Playing "Boring Club" (1!c is 12-20 bal), I have a clear 1!d, transfer.

Playing Acol, I would make a GF raise, whatever that is.

[kenrexford]

Another other here. I would start with a specialized 2NT, as either weak or GF, club support. My plan is to continue with 3H after the expected 3C from partner.

[neilkaz]

I prefer to ingore doubles of minor suit openings as much as possible.

Thus, I prefer to play invm rather than Jordon (Truscott) 2NT after minor suit openings are doubled. I lose just a bit in that I cannot make a simple raise with 4 trumps over 1C, but I gain in that when I call 2NT I have the majors stopped and sometimes help in the other minor and I rightsided the NT contract.

But with most PD's I cannot use invm when I have a 4 card major, (in comp or not) so I'll just bid 1H here and catch up on club support later with my GF hand.

So many opps make offshape takeout doubles now which is why many players just bid 4 card majors anyhow (especially Hearts which can be lost).

An opp playing equal level conversion after a take out double may hold...

ATxx,xx,KQJx,Jxx here for example and while he could have a disaster pending, if his PD responds in H, he justs bids spades at the same equal level which says."PD I have 4 spades, rather than H, and if you don't like spades, run to Diamonds or NT ). Off course playing this method responder to the double really cannot blast to game without 6 cards and often has to Q bid to show GF hands. The doubler, if he holds a hand too good to overcall, needs to jump a round in his own suit to show it.

Anyhow...so many opps make offshape takeout doubles regardless of what they play. Thus 1H for me.

.. neilkaz ..

[Gerben42]

I bid 1♥ (or transfer if we agreed that).

If 1♣ shows 4+ cards I wonder what drug my partner put in my drink before the system discussion, but still bid 1♥.

[akhare]

Believe it or not, we would bid 1♥ in our system too (Dejeneur starting a invite+ relay). Note that 1♣ opening would have promised 4+♥ and 9-13 points in our system.

In any case, starting off w/ a simple 1♥ response over a natural 1♣ opening seems pretty straightforward.

[EricK]

I think that if you have a strong fitting hand on this auction, the correct call is often Pass. Opponents are in a forcing auction, and LHO will have nothing. A lot of the time he will be in a rather uncomfortable position, especially if his partner is in the habit of making low-level offshape doubles. I don't see any need to rescue him from the burden of having to come up with a bid.

The chances are that he will bid at the one-level and either partner will bid again, or it will be passed round to me. It is very unlikley that RHO, with an obvioulsy minimum double, will be able to scrape up another bid.

When it is my next turn to bid, I will have a cheap cue-bid to show a strong hand. I will later support Clubs. When we finally declare the hand, we will have a better idea of the distribution of the opposing hands because we have forced LHO to bid.

[Poky]

1NT showing 5+♣ with 7+, followed by 2♥. Natural bidding.

[Dwingo]

I don't find 2NT as one of the options. Limit raise or better in ♣'s after the double. I thought this was quite standard in most Natural systems.

Get the word out for pd's ♣ support as quickly as possible.

The problem that I see with the 1♥ bid , is if you hear 3♦ or 3♠ to your left, then it will be difficult to convince your partner that you had such lovely support for his suit later on in the bidding.

[Winstonm]

neilkaz, on Jul 29 2006, 09:47 AM, said:

I prefer to ingore doubles of minor suit openings as much as possible.

Thus, I prefer to play invm rather than Jordon (Truscott) 2NT after minor suit openings are doubled. I lose just a bit in that I cannot make a simple raise with 4 trumps over 1C, but I gain in that when I call 2NT I have the majors stopped and sometimes help in the other minor and I rightsided the NT contract.

But with most PD's I cannot use invm when I have a 4 card major, (in comp or not) so I'll just bid 1H here and catch up on club support later with my GF hand.

So many opps make offshape takeout doubles now which is why many players just bid 4 card majors anyhow (especially Hearts which can be lost).

An opp playing equal level conversion after a take out double may hold...

ATxx,xx,KQJx,Jxx here for example and while he could have a disaster pending, if his PD responds in H, he justs bids spades at the same equal level which says."PD I have 4 spades, rather than H, and if you don't like spades, run to Diamonds or NT ). Off course playing this method responder to the double really cannot blast to game without 6 cards and often has to Q bid to show GF hands. The doubler, if he holds a hand too good to overcall, needs to jump a round in his own suit to show it.

Anyhow...so many opps make offshape takeout doubles regardless of what they play. Thus 1H for me.

.. neilkaz ..

May I have your views on my partner's assumptions? His reasoning, which I agreed to follow, is this:

First, minor raises after t.o. double: 2N should be the weak minor raise. Second, 3m shoud be limit raise to keep strong hand on lead if 3N is right.

Third, chances of poor-breaking majors increases substantially, from 32% to over 50% so there is less reason to bid a 4-card major or to try to find the 4/4 fit, therefore major suit free bids show 5+ length.

However, the increased chances of poor suit breaks is valid only when playing against traditional t.o. doubles - and even then whether it is right to basically ingnore a 4/4 major fit because of increased prospects for poor breaks is dubious logic at best to me.

[1eyedjack]

Winstonm, on Jul 30 2006, 03:05 PM, said:

Third, chances of poor-breaking majors increases substantially, from 32% to over 50% so there is less reason to bid a 4-card major or to try to find the 4/4 fit, therefore major suit free bids show 5+ length.

However, the increased chances of poor suit breaks is valid only when playing against traditional t.o. doubles - and even then whether it is right to basically ingnore a 4/4 major fit because of increased prospects for poor breaks is dubious logic at best to me.

I agree (I think) with the principle, although I am not sure about the particular odds.

Knowledge that the prospective trump suit (ie Hearts in this case) is (more) likely to be breaking badly may affect the desirable level to which to bid, but I do not see it as having much effect on the choice of trumps. Especially since you are on advance notice of which opponent will possess the long trumps.