[Free]

You hold:

Scoring: MP

---

The bidding starts (you play 2/1):
1♣ - pass - 1♠ - pass
1NT - 2♥ - ???

What do you do?

[kenberg]

I bid 2S. Doubling puts too much of a load on partner since I have two more spades than he knows about. I have a good hand and I can imagine bidding 3S, but I have too many losers opposite a 1NT rebid. It's matchpoints, 2S seems like a sure plus score, so that's my bid.



BTW, 2H seems odd to me. Over 1C he chose neither 1H nor 2H but now, when it is easier to double for penalties, he wants to come in with 2H. I can't recall ever having done this myself. Seems nuts.

[jtfanclub]

kenberg, on Aug 1 2006, 07:16 AM, said:

BTW, 2H seems odd to me. Over 1C he chose neither 1H nor 2H but now, when it is easier to double for penalties, he wants to come in with 2H. I can't recall ever having done this myself. Seems nuts.

I'm going to assume that the opp had a good reason for not bidding 1♥ or Xing the first time. That would have to be points or shape.

Most people would bid 1♥ with 9 or even 8 hcp. If the bidding had gone P-P-1C-P-1S-P-1NT I'd think that he was 'borrowing' points from partner, because both hands are limited, but in this case, since the 1♠ bidder is unlimited, it can't be that.

So I think it must be shape. He didn't bid 1♥ because they don't do 4 card overcalls. He has a good hand - too good to pass at 1NT - but couldn't bid 1♥ the first time.

So why didn't he double the first or second time? The first time, it would have shown tolerence for diamonds, hearts, and spades. The second time, it would have shown tolerence for diamonds and hearts. He couldn't do it either time, and he bid hearts, so he must have no tolerence for diamonds. I think his hand is something like:

KTx
KQTx
xx
AQTx

Not strong enough to bid 1NT, wrong shape for 1♥, and no good rebid if his partner had responded to an X with diamonds. He's stuck the first time, and the second, but couldn't bring himself to pass 1NT with such a good hand.

If that's the case, then I don't want to bid 2♠. If partner has 3 spades he doesn't need encouragement to bid them, and if he has two it looks unlikely that we'll be able to develop anything in the minors. I don't think 2 spades is going to make unless partner can bid them without my help, and the vunlerability is wrong for bidding an unmakeable contract.

That would leave pass and X. I think my three hearts to the A is golden. We're always going to be able to get at least one ruff, and 13+14+10=37, looks to me like the 2♥ bidder's partner is pretty close to a bust, so they're going to have serious entry problems. I don't think he'll take an X by me to be a 4 card heart suit, not if we play up the line. So if he has good hearts he'll likely leave it in, and if he doesn't he'll likely pull to 2♠ if he has even two of them, since I won't take him for 3. So I'll X, though pass is close.

A long winded excuse for not making the obvious bid. Oh well.

[pclayton]

Many of you know that I think prebalancing in these auctions is ludicrous.

While I am on a fervent religious mission to convert (or kill) all those who go against my beliefs, I don't quite have the hand to saw off 2♥.

The scimitar will stay in its sheath for the time being.

[awm]

The meaning of partner's 1NT might have a bit of an effect here. In particular:

(1) If partner will never raise on three spades and a balanced hand, and his 1NT guarantees 2-3 spades, then bidding 2♠ seems virtually automatic, with some consideration given to 3♠. Doubling when we have a known 8-card fit (quite possibly 9-card fit) seems dubious.

(2) If partner will often raise on three spades and a balanced hand, and will fairly often rebid 1NT with a small singleton spade, then double seems much more reasonable. The hand is an apparent misfit (we have at most 8 spades and I have singleton club opposite partner's length) and the opponents could easily be going for a number. Plus my points are aces and I have a ruffing value. Bidding 2♠ in this case is possible (but is at best a 6-2 and possibly a 6-1 fit) and bidding 3♠ seems ridiculous.

[kenberg]

awm, on Aug 1 2006, 06:08 PM, said:

The meaning of partner's 1NT might have a bit of an effect here. In particular:

(1) If partner will never raise on three spades and a balanced hand, and his 1NT guarantees 2-3 spades, then bidding 2♠ seems virtually automatic, with some consideration given to 3♠. Doubling when we have a known 8-card fit (quite possibly 9-card fit) seems dubious.

(2) If partner will often raise on three spades and a balanced hand, and will fairly often rebid 1NT with a small singleton spade, then double seems much more reasonable. The hand is an apparent misfit (we have at most 8 spades and I have singleton club opposite partner's length) and the opponents could easily be going for a number. Plus my points are aces and I have a ruffing value. Bidding 2♠ in this case is possible (but is at best a 6-2 and possibly a 6-1 fit) and bidding 3♠ seems ridiculous.

I agree with this. Most of my partners play mostly as I do (I hope they are not insulted by this statement). I think Edgar Kaplan once said of the raise on three cards: You can and sometimes should, but you don't go out of your way to do it. Or something of that sort. Whatever Edgar said, that's my practice. I have partners who refuse to ever raise on three, but no partners who would often (or ever?) raise on three with a balanced hand. I also try hard not to rebid 1N on a stiff. With 1-4-3-5 I am sometimes stuck, but with good clubs I rebid them. Partner will probably expect six, but he might also expect two spades if I rebid 1NT, and it seems to me that 2C works out more better more often. So as I bid, the stiff is rare and the three card holding somewhat common. I agree that if opener will seldom have three and could easily have one then double is more appealing.

[FrancesHinden]

jtfanclub, on Aug 1 2006, 04:05 PM, said:

kenberg, on Aug 1 2006, 07:16 AM, said:

BTW, 2H seems odd to me. Over 1C he chose neither 1H nor 2H but now, when it is easier to double for penalties, he wants to come in with 2H. I can't recall ever having done this myself. Seems nuts.

I'm going to assume that the opp had a good reason for not bidding 1♥ or Xing the first time. That would have to be points or shape.

I've hand this type of auction a few times, and without exception the 'pre-balancer' has indeed been nuts. The last time it happened we were +1100.

[cherdano]

jtfanclub, on Aug 1 2006, 05:05 PM, said:

kenberg, on Aug 1 2006, 07:16 AM, said:

BTW, 2H seems odd to me. Over 1C he chose neither 1H nor 2H but now, when it is easier to double for penalties, he wants to come in with 2H. I can't recall ever having done this myself. Seems nuts.

I'm going to assume that the opp had a good reason for not bidding 1♥ or Xing the first time. That would have to be points or shape.

Most people would bid 1♥ with 9 or even 8 hcp. If the bidding had gone P-P-1C-P-1S-P-1NT I'd think that he was 'borrowing' points from partner, because both hands are limited, but in this case, since the 1♠ bidder is unlimited, it can't be that.

So I think it must be shape. He didn't bid 1♥ because they don't do 4 card overcalls. He has a good hand - too good to pass at 1NT - but couldn't bid 1♥ the first time.

So why didn't he double the first or second time? The first time, it would have shown tolerence for diamonds, hearts, and spades. The second time, it would have shown tolerence for diamonds and hearts. He couldn't do it either time, and he bid hearts, so he must have no tolerence for diamonds. I think his hand is something like:

KTx
KQTx
xx
AQTx

Sorry, I can't see how this hand can bid 2♥ now. No way.

"prebalancing" is meant for fit auctions.

Arend

[whereagles]

In theory, the 2♥ bid shows 5 or 6 very weak diamonds and 4 hearts, say

x
KQJx
Jxxxxx
Kx

In practice it's just someone who believes in sound overcalls in 1st round and doesn't realize overcalling in 2nd round is infinitely more dangerous. There are many people who (mis)bid like this. I've seen it over and over and over.

There are hints at heart and club wastage, so I'd settle for 2♠. At imps and red I might try 3♠, but at matchpoints 2♠ is enough.