[plaur]

---

1 NT (15-17) - 2♥
2 ♠ - ?

Is this hand worth 2NT or 3NT and why?

[1eyedjack]

Seems too strong for 2NT. Combined 25-27 hand is in the game zone. Sure I can construct hands in that range were game is poor, but not many, and no bidding room to cater for the possibility (or rather bidding room more useful for other more frequent purposes).

If 3NT is the only alternative available in your methods then that is the call, I guess. Interested to know what your other bids would have meant.

[P_Marlowe]

3NT.

Why? Simple HCP count tells you this,
and there is no reason to downgrade
the hand, you have Aces, 2 suits with
trick taking potential.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: 3D is an option, if it is forcing,
but you want to play either 3NT or 4S,
and have no interest in 5D, due to the
semibal. nature of your hand, so why
tell them about your hand.

[1eyedjack]

P_Marlowe, on Jul 22 2006, 09:35 AM, said:

PS: 3D is an option, if it is forcing,
but you want to play either 3NT or 4S,
and have no interest in 5D, due to the
semibal. nature of your hand, so why
tell them about your hand.

Perhaps 3D might provide opener with more accurate information from which to choose between 3N and 4S. There are hands in which 4S is right on a 5-2 fit. There are hands in which 3N is right with a 5-3 Spade fit. Personally vote for 3N, but would not argue with 3D.

[mr1303]

When I bid 3D here I want partner to know I'm serious about diamonds, and he can raise with a suitable hand.

On this hand, I have no interest in playing in diamonds.

I might try 2NT if playing Keri (GF 5 spades 4 card minor) but other than that I'll bid 3NT.

[EricK]

This hand is worth game opposite a 15-17 NT.

Why? Well it has ten points. In fact it has a good ten points - Aces are worth more than 4 points each, and there is a Ten in a long suit headed by an honour.

[FrancesHinden]

The hand is easily worth game opposite a strong NT.
I'm fairly neutral about whether it's worth mentioned the diamonds or not. If partner has

KQ
xxx
AJxxx
AKx

you'd really wish you'd mentioned the diamonds (OK, I admit I had to construct that hand quite carefully).

[Walddk]

3NT next. You don't want to play in diamonds, so forget about showing them. Spades and notrump are the only options with this semi-balanced hand, so give partner a choice of games: 3NT and 4♠.

If I had a singleton, I would bid 3♦. It's game forcing but not necessarily slam invitational in my methods. First priority: look for the best game.

Roland

[EricK]

Don't try to find excuses not to bid game. If anything you should be looking for excuses to bid game.

[1eyedjack]

FrancesHinden, on Jul 22 2006, 11:58 AM, said:

The hand is easily worth game opposite a strong NT.
I'm fairly neutral about whether it's worth mentioned the diamonds or not.  If partner has

KQ
xxx
AJxxx
AKx

you'd really wish you'd mentioned the diamonds (OK, I admit I had to construct that hand quite carefully).

I was thinking similar thoughts. It did not take me as long to construct a hand where I wanted to be in Diamonds:

S:Kx
H:KQx
D:KJxxx
C:Axx

Here, good play for 6D, 3N definitely at risk. Would be happy to play in 4S if I know the oppo are likely to be in 3N. Give him S:Q instead of K and 5m is quite good enough. Not so happy about 4S then, and 3N more likely to fail.

Partner knows as well as I that 5m is an exceptional choice when 3N is available. He doesn't have to raise.

[mr1303]

Well yes, but what would you bid with:

AKxxx
xx
AKxxx
x

You can't expect him to evaluate the two hands similarly if you start off the same way.

Maybe this is a bit strong, but make the hand slightly weaker (but with the same shape) and the point is still there.

[Winstonm]

What's wrong with forcing 3D - it can't hurt and pard may have something like:

Kx, KQx, AKxxx, Jxx.

If you are 5/5 and really want to insist, what is the problem with bidding 2D and then 4D over 3N?

[neilkaz]

3NT all the way with this nice 10 HCP for me.

3D isn't the worst bid in the world, but you need to catch PD with the right hand to make it pay off, and I think it missleads PD, and helps the defence a bit too often, to be worth while.

And especially at MP, just bid 3NT and hope to take 430 if PD passes. The defence is somewhat in the dark as to the best lead.

.. neilkaz ..

[Echognome]

I shall plug Justin's transfer extensions here.

http://squeezingthedummy.blogspot.com/2005...my_archive.html

(scroll down to Transfer Extensions)

Here, you would feel much more comfortable transferring and then transferring again (to diamonds) and then bidding 3NT. Partner can then choose the right game without thinking you have a pure slam try.

[mike777]

Walddk, on Jul 22 2006, 06:01 AM, said:

3NT next. You don't want to play in diamonds, so forget about showing them. Spades and notrump are the only options with this semi-balanced hand, so give partner a choice of games: 3NT and 4♠.

If I had a singleton, I would bid 3♦. It's game forcing but not necessarily slam invitational in my methods. First priority: look for the best game.

Roland

Why would you never want to play in D? Does partner never open with 5 or 6 or in my case maybe even 7D .

It does seem a bit extreme to say no one would never want to play in D on this hand even if you would never want to. .

Scoring is unknown so we may even be playing IMps.

[Winstonm]

mike777, on Jul 22 2006, 11:21 AM, said:

Walddk, on Jul 22 2006, 06:01 AM, said:

3NT next. You don't want to play in diamonds, so forget about showing them. Spades and notrump are the only options with this semi-balanced hand, so give partner a choice of games: 3NT and 4♠.

If I had a singleton, I would bid 3♦. It's game forcing but not necessarily slam invitational in my methods. First priority: look for the best game.

Roland

Why would you never want to play in D? Does partner never open with 5 or 6 or in my case maybe even 7D .

It does seem a bit extreme to say no one would never want to play in D on this hand even if you would never want to. .

Scoring is unknown so we may even be playing IMps.

The reason Roland doesn't bid diamonds is that it may lead to way too good of game contract. What's the challenge of playing an icy 5D when you can be at the wheel of a dicey 3N. Just kidding, Roaland.

[1eyedjack]

Walddk, on Jul 22 2006, 12:01 PM, said:

If I had a singleton, I would bid 3♦. It's game forcing but not necessarily slam invitational in my methods. First priority: look for the best game.

Just re-read this thread. If *I* had a singleton then the fact of its possession and its location is likely to be critical to opener's decision whether to play in 3N or in a suit. If bidding 3D is natural and promises a singleton outside, then you are nearly there, and there is a bit of room below 3N to locate the singleton.

Anyway, normally I would show a 5-2-4-2 GF without committing beyond 3N. This also caters for mr1303's distinction from AKxxx, xx, AKxxx, x. However I am assuming that we are trying to cope with basic methods.