[sceptic]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     3NT   Pass  4♣
 Pass  5♣    Pass  Pass
 Pass  

I opened and raised were both bad or ok?

[badderzboy]

Hi Wayne,

3NT was perfect if you play gambling 3NT.

4♣ is pass or correct so partner is captain as you have described your hand.

I guess u made on a non spade lead and no spade switch but you really should pass 4♣ as you have no idea what partner has

Just remember when you have pre-empted you don't rebid your hand you have told all so trust partner

Steve

[Walddk]

I wouldn't say 3NT is perfect when you have a void, but it's definitely acceptable. Anyway, now you have told your story, and the rest is up to partner. If he wanted to play game, he would have bid 5♣ (pass or correct if you have diamonds), not 4♣.

Making 5♣ takes a lot of help from the defence. Heart lead ducked and heart continuation. Much to ask for, especially looking at West's hand with two KQ combinations.

Roland

[cherdano]

I don't like 3N with extra length and a void (I would open 5♣), but it's definitely ok. Then pass.

[kenrexford]

This deal reminds me of a favorite story from the past. I initially wondered why your partner pulled 3NT with two Aces and then noticed the void in clubs. LOL

The story was a similar deal. I had just taught a student about Gambling 3NT. I explained that she could pass with all suits stopped, or with two suits stopped and some guts. She held wonderful stoppers and passed, but she was void in clubs.

I ducked the opening major lead and then faced the "indignity" of a club switch through my AKQJxxxx. I suppose a void sometimes is sufficient.

[luke warm]

this hand is almost too strong for 3nt ... but it's not a bad bid by any means... i'd have to pass 4♣

[helene_t]

5♣ is good if partner failed to bid 5♣ because
- assuming seven clubs she counted exactly ten tricks, or
- she had enough tricks but counted three loosers, including one or two in diamonds.

My feeling is that 5♣ is anti-percentage (with such a good hand she might have been able to pass 3NT) but I might be wrong, I would need to do a simulation.

[1eyedjack]

helene_t, on Jul 9 2006, 10:03 AM, said:

5♣ is good if partner failed to bid 5♣ because
- assuming seven clubs she counted exactly ten tricks, or
- she had enough tricks but counted three loosers, including one or two in diamonds.

My feeling is that 5♣ is anti-percentage (with such a good hand she might have been able to pass 3NT) but I might be wrong, I would need to do a simulation.

I don't understand this. Responder's 4C bid does not (to my mind) express an expectation of making 10 tricks in Clubs. Rather it says that you are going down a fewer number of tricks in 4C than you would in 3NT.

[han]

That does not contradict with what Helene said. She said that the 5C bid would ONLY be good IF those two things were true. She didn't say that those two things are true.

[barmar]

But if those things were true, 3NT usually has a shot, so partner wouldn't pull in the first place. Helene was explaining the reason for pulling to ONLY the 4 level, but didn't address the reason for pulling. And the latter is almost always because partner either doesn't have side stoppers (so the gamble is not likely to pay off) or can't get to your hand to run the suit.

[helene_t]

That's exactly what I said, wasn't it?

Quote

(with such a good hand she might have been able to pass 3NT)

[whereagles]

Opening: fine. If you get picky with requirements, the bid will rust!

Raise: usually you need 2 extra tricks to raise a sign-off. 1 is not enough. With 8 cards you need a side suit of Qxx or xxx. With 9 cards a reraise is ok.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

you should pass 4C.

4C does not promise anything,
if partner wanted to play 5C
he would have bid 5C as pass
or correct.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[bid_em_up]

The opening is fine, just be aware that the longer your suit is, the more likely partner is to be void in your suit.

Personally, I do not subscribe to the belief that you must have at least two (or all three) side suits stopped to pass the 3N bid. It is called Gambling 3N for a reason. You are gambling that you can run 9 tricks or that 3N undoubled minus however many is an excellent sac against opps (probable) major suit game. At favorable vulnerability or both white, you can go down 9 undoubled (its been known to happen), and the most you are losing is 450 against opps major suit game. Until you get doubled, why run? (Assuming partner is not void in your suit....in this case, he must pull). If you are vulnerable, is when you have to worry about stops in the side suits to leave the 3N bid in. Now two of three is a reasonable approach.

The question really should be, what should partner have to leave an X of 3N in? Once it gets doubled, he really needs stops in all three side suits to leave it.

With an 8 card suit, I would (almost) always bid 5C. The worst thats liable to happen is your down 3 against nothing but since partner would not sit for 3N, it is more likely that opps are making at least 4M.

[barmar]

bid_em_up, on Jul 11 2006, 01:42 PM, said:

Personally, I do not subscribe to the belief that you must have at least two (or all three) side suits stopped to pass the 3N bid. It is called Gambling 3N for a reason. You are gambling that you can run 9 tricks or that 3N undoubled minus however many is an excellent sac against opps major suit game.

The big problem is if they weren't making game; then going down 4 is worse than their part score. If partner opens 3NT and you have lots of quacks, they may be enough to stop the opponents from making game, but not enough to make 3NT your way.

[bid_em_up]

barmar, on Jul 11 2006, 12:51 PM, said:

bid_em_up, on Jul 11 2006, 01:42 PM, said:

Personally, I do not subscribe to the belief that you must have at least two (or all three) side suits stopped to pass the 3N bid. It is called Gambling 3N for a reason. You are gambling that you can run 9 tricks or that 3N undoubled minus however many is an excellent sac against opps major suit game.

The big problem is if they weren't making game; then going down 4 is worse than their part score. If partner opens 3NT and you have lots of quacks, they may be enough to stop the opponents from making game, but not enough to make 3NT your way.

Down 4 may be worse than their partscore. However, what is -200 against their 140? The difference is insignificant. But you also leave them guessing which is correct (defend 3N or bid 4M). How much you would you care to bet they get it wrong more often than not?

[neilkaz]

The hand shown here has an extra club, but still looks like a gambling 3NT bid to me. I'd pass 4C rather than try 5C since I really don't know what PD has for 4C, pass or correct.

[Winstonm]

One view per hand, please. If you rate this a 3N bid, then it can't later become a 5C preempt. It's either one or the other. Put me in the opening 5C camp.

[neilkaz]

5C opening certainly has merit, but what if it preempts your side from a 4H or even 4S game ? (not to mention that PD is allowed to have a club and pass 3NT and hope the opps don't lead the 1 (likely only 1) unstopped suit.

I just think a 5C opening is too all or nothing here. 3NT really preempts quite a bit, and 5C is really easy to double when both opps are balanced and have no other options than low percentage guesses.

Now if I had a 9th club, then 5C for me here, or if I had 3D's and two major stiffs, 5C again has merit, but with 8 clubs, I still lean towards 3NT.

Just my opinion...opening 5C is fun and flashy and swingy..if you must have a swing ..go for it..even here.

.. neilkaz ..

[SoTired]

3N opener is fine. Showing no outside A or K.

With those 2 major suit aces, too bad responder is void in clubs and can't pass 3N.

4C is the rescue bid. Opener should pass that. I guess opener thot the diam void and extra club allowed the 5C bid. But think about it. To make 5C you need responder to cover 3 of the 5 major suit losers. If responder had that hand, responder would likely either pass 3N or bid 5C.

BTW, how does responder bid if responder is interested in slam?

Responder bids 4D, requesting opener's shortness. Opener rebids:
4H/4S = h/s shortness
4N = no shortness, 7222
5C/5D = my suit, shortness is other minor