Help
|
|
West North East South
3♣ 3♠ 4♣ 4♠
5♣ Pass Pass ?
Is pass an option here?
tyia
jb
is the pass forcing? your bid
#1
- hooked
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 13,295
- Joined: 2003-November-15
- Gender:Female
- Location:Vancouver, Canada
- Interests:Multi
Posted 2006-July-02, 13:23
West North East South
3♣ 3♠ 4♣ 4♠
5♣ Pass Pass ?
Is pass an option here?
tyia
jb
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
Bridge should be fun!
SHAPE!
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." (MH)
Bridge should be fun!
SHAPE!
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." (MH)
#2
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 5,577
- Joined: 2005-March-01
- Gender:Male
- Location:Erlangen, Germany
-
Interests:Astronomy, Mathematics
Nuclear power
Posted 2006-July-02, 13:36
My rule for the 5-level is: IF we have shown at least invitational values or bid a game constructively, a pass on the 5-level is forcing.
Since they preempt partner's 3♠ is constructive. Although this is not so clear for 4♠ the 3♠ bid in combination with the 5-level makes pass forcing for me.
This is likely not the "only" answer, will be interesting to see what others say.
Since they preempt partner's 3♠ is constructive. Although this is not so clear for 4♠ the 3♠ bid in combination with the 5-level makes pass forcing for me.
This is likely not the "only" answer, will be interesting to see what others say.
#3
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,239
- Joined: 2005-March-18
- Gender:Male
Posted 2006-July-02, 13:37
No.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#4
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 17,289
- Joined: 2005-January-08
- Gender:Male
- Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
- Interests:Art, music
Posted 2006-July-02, 13:53
In theory it probably depends to a degree on vulnerability; in practice it is probably forcing. For simplicity, my rule is whenever our side has shown substantially the balance of power then pass is forcing. Here, 3S bidder shows some extras by competing at the 3-level and pard has raised to game showing around limit raise values - ergo, the balance of power is on our side and the pass becomes forcing.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
#5
- Group: Admin
- Posts: 14,566
- Joined: 2003-February-13
- Gender:Male
- Location:Amelia Island, FL
- Interests:Bridge, what else?
Posted 2006-July-02, 13:57
A couple of rules you might consider: 1) direct raises never establish forcing pass.
2) if we bid vul game and they bid on, pass is forcing.
Thse confict here. For me pass is not forcing
2) if we bid vul game and they bid on, pass is forcing.
Thse confict here. For me pass is not forcing
--Ben--
#6
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 18,423
- Joined: 2003-October-07
- Gender:Male
Posted 2006-July-02, 14:20
If you are looking for a simple version of what is forcing pass, try this:
1) Any time we make a game try and they outbid us, a pass is forcing.
2) otherwise pass is not forcing.
Clearly pass is forcing here.
1) Any time we make a game try and they outbid us, a pass is forcing.
2) otherwise pass is not forcing.
Clearly pass is forcing here.
#7
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,151
- Joined: 2003-June-11
- Location:Southern California
Posted 2006-July-02, 14:24
Depends on who you ask. If its me Id say NF, since RHO is an unpassed hand.
"Phil" on BBO
#8
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 6,951
- Joined: 2003-September-07
- Gender:Male
- Interests:Bridge, poker, politics
Posted 2006-July-02, 21:42
i'd say pass here is not forcing.. partner bid 3♠ he didn't double... i agree with phil... that isn't to say mike's point re: punishing them because you think you had a vulnerable game is wrong, just that it shouldn't be a p'ship trainwreck
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
#9
- The Abbess
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 17,401
- Joined: 2004-April-22
- Gender:Female
- Location:Odense, Denmark
- Interests:History, languages
Posted 2006-July-02, 23:02
I like pass to be forcing here, but I don't think that's standard.
Anyway, pass is not an option with this hand. Double is clear.
Anyway, pass is not an option with this hand. Double is clear.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
#10
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,303
- Joined: 2003-February-14
- Location:England
Posted 2006-July-03, 00:21
One rule that is useful against weak players is that if pre-emptor bids again then passes are forcing.
#11
- Group: Yellows
- Posts: 6,772
- Joined: 2003-July-22
- Gender:Male
- Location:New Zealand
- Interests:Juggling, Unicycling
Posted 2006-July-03, 01:09
mike777, on Jul 3 2006, 08:20 AM, said:
If you are looking for a simple version of what is forcing pass, try this:
1) Any time we make a game try and they outbid us, a pass is forcing.
2) otherwise pass is not forcing.
Clearly pass is forcing here.
1) Any time we make a game try and they outbid us, a pass is forcing.
2) otherwise pass is not forcing.
Clearly pass is forcing here.
Which bid is the game try?
Wayne Burrows
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#12
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,239
- Joined: 2005-March-18
- Gender:Male
Posted 2006-July-03, 01:24
Cascade, on Jul 3 2006, 02:09 AM, said:
mike777, on Jul 3 2006, 08:20 AM, said:
If you are looking for a simple version of what is forcing pass, try this:
1) Any time we make a game try and they outbid us, a pass is forcing.
2) otherwise pass is not forcing.
Clearly pass is forcing here.
1) Any time we make a game try and they outbid us, a pass is forcing.
2) otherwise pass is not forcing.
Clearly pass is forcing here.
Which bid is the game try?
4S?
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#13
- Limit bidder
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 8,483
- Joined: 2004-November-02
- Gender:Female
- Location:England
- Interests:Bridge, classical music, skiing... but I spend more time earning a living than doing any of those
Posted 2006-July-03, 03:19
This looks like an obvious double whether or not pass is forcing.
#14
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 925
- Joined: 2004-September-13
- Gender:Male
- Location:England
- Interests:I have discovered that the water cooler is a chrono-synclastic infundibulum
Posted 2006-July-03, 04:28
Yes obvious double here. Suppose, however, you take away 2 clubs from the South hand and make them 2 small hearts. It now matters what you make of North's pass. How many clubs do opps have between them and how many spades for the NS total?
May 2003: Mission accomplished
Oct 2006: Mission impossible
Soon: Mission illegal
Oct 2006: Mission impossible
Soon: Mission illegal
#15
- hooked
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 13,295
- Joined: 2003-November-15
- Gender:Female
- Location:Vancouver, Canada
- Interests:Multi
Posted 2006-July-03, 07:33
Thanks for the replies, here's the full hand
West North East South
3♣ 3♠ 4♣ 4♠
5♣ Pass Pass Dbl
RDbl Pass Pass Pass
5♣XX= (corrected)
Scoring: IMP
West North East South
3♣ 3♠ 4♣ 4♠
5♣ Pass Pass Dbl
RDbl Pass Pass Pass
5♣XX= (corrected)
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
Bridge should be fun!
SHAPE!
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." (MH)
Bridge should be fun!
SHAPE!
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." (MH)
#16
- Limit bidder
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 8,483
- Joined: 2004-November-02
- Gender:Female
- Location:England
- Interests:Bridge, classical music, skiing... but I spend more time earning a living than doing any of those
Posted 2006-July-03, 08:16
I'm so confused.
why did West redouble?
why did it go off?
what drugs were North on?
why did West redouble?
why did it go off?
what drugs were North on?
#17
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 15,725
- Joined: 2003-February-13
- Gender:Male
- Location:Natick, MA
-
Interests:Travel
Cooking
Brewing
Hiking
Posted 2006-July-03, 08:32
Quick comment:
I was North on this hand. I readily admit that I am not proud of my overcall. I would have preferred to have a better suit and more defense. With this said and done, I was worried that my club void implied that partner would have some club length. I figured that if I passed there would be a lot of hands where we'd defend 3 clubs with a Spade game available.
I'm also not sure whether I should take action over 5C or after 5CXX...
I don't consider either pass or 5♠ clear cut.
In the end, the 3S overcall got what it deserved since 5CXX made without much trouble.
Like you, I have no idea where the XX of 5♣ came from...
I was North on this hand. I readily admit that I am not proud of my overcall. I would have preferred to have a better suit and more defense. With this said and done, I was worried that my club void implied that partner would have some club length. I figured that if I passed there would be a lot of hands where we'd defend 3 clubs with a Spade game available.
I'm also not sure whether I should take action over 5C or after 5CXX...
I don't consider either pass or 5♠ clear cut.
In the end, the 3S overcall got what it deserved since 5CXX made without much trouble.
Like you, I have no idea where the XX of 5♣ came from...
Alderaan delenda est
#18
- hooked
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 13,295
- Joined: 2003-November-15
- Gender:Female
- Location:Vancouver, Canada
- Interests:Multi
Posted 2006-July-03, 08:48
correction contract was 5♣XX=
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
Bridge should be fun!
SHAPE!
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." (MH)
Bridge should be fun!
SHAPE!
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." (MH)
#19
- Group: FD TEAM
- Posts: 2,735
- Joined: 2003-February-13
- Gender:Male
- Location:Nashville, TN
- Interests:Motorsports, cricket, disc golf, and of course - bridge. :-)
Posted 2006-July-03, 11:46
Pass is nonforcing here. They have bid and raised freely in competition.
I don't think the 3♠ overcall is that bad, but I do think leaving the double and then the "interesting" redouble in with a void is begging disaster, especially at IMP scoring. I'd yank it to 5♥.
I don't think the 3♠ overcall is that bad, but I do think leaving the double and then the "interesting" redouble in with a void is begging disaster, especially at IMP scoring. I'd yank it to 5♥.
"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali
#20
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 14,035
- Joined: 2005-June-15
- Gender:Male
- Location:Canada
- Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.
Posted 2006-July-03, 11:52
Quite the bidding by west: I suppose that one could 'justify' the 5♣ on the basis that he can play east for very short ♠'s but why he redoubled is beyond me....was this online by any chance? Not that that means much 
As for the original question, for me the pass would be non-forcing... but I would have doubled anyway
As for the original question, for me the pass would be non-forcing... but I would have doubled anyway
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari