[pclayton]

Axx, xx, KQJx, QJ7x

X IMPs, all red.

You open 1♦, 2♣ on left, double by pard, pass to you?

[hrothgar]

pclayton, on Jun 29 2006, 02:58 AM, said:

Axx, xx, KQJx, QJ7x

X IMPs, all red.

You open 1♦, 2♣ on left, double by pard, pass to you?

I'll bid 2♠

My trumps aren't quite good enough to convert...

[pbleighton]

Phil, since you are posting this, it can't be a wtp? question, but I see no other bid than 2NT.

Peter

[mike777]

2nt....


second choice would be pass but I do not think that is close.

Btw make the hand:
Axx...Axx...Axxx...xxx and I still rebid 2nt without a club stopper. Prefer to rebid NT than lie about 3 card major.

[hrothgar]

Do many people play a natural/non-forcing 2NT here?
Unclear whether it makes all that much sense...

1. You need to hold strong enough clubs that you can declare NT but weak enough clubs that you can't convert for penalties...

2. 2NT is rarely a good contract...

Would I like to be able to bid a nature 2NT on this hand? Probably...
Do I think that a natural/non-forcing 2NT is a desirable treat ment? No...

[pbleighton]

"Would I like to be able to bid a nature 2NT on this hand? Probably...
Do I think that a natural 2NT is a desirable treat ment? No... "

OK, I'll bite.

1. What does 2NT mean to you here, in your regular partnerships?

2. What would you assume it meant with a pickup partner?

Peter

[pclayton]

I would assume 2N would be natural here.

I'll ask a leading question: Is it easier to take 8 tricks in NT than 6 in clubs with this hand?

[mike777]

pclayton, on Jun 28 2006, 08:37 PM, said:

I would assume 2N would be natural here.

I'll ask a leading question: Is it easier to take 8 tricks in NT than 6 in clubs with this hand?

It may be easier to make 7 tricks in NT than 6 tricks in clubs.
In addition pard may run to 3D in the cases where 2nt is a default bid not stoppers.

Kxxx...AJxx...Txxx...x

[hrothgar]

pbleighton, on Jun 29 2006, 04:35 AM, said:

"Would I like to be able to bid a nature 2NT on this hand? Probably...
Do I think that a natural 2NT is a desirable treat ment? No... "

OK, I'll bite.

1. What does 2NT mean to you here, in your regular partnerships?

2. What would you assume it meant with a pickup partner?

Peter

In a pickup partnership, I'd assume that 2NT was natural and non-forcing...

Here is a reasonable scheme that I used in one partnership

2♦ = Natural and non-forcing
2♥ = Natural and non-forcing
2♠ = Natural and non- forcing
2NT = 4/4 majors, GF values OR 18-20 NT
3♣ = GF values, one 4 card major
3♦ = good Diamonds, no club stopper
3♥ = good Diamonds, Hearts stopped
3♠ = good Diamonds, Spades stopped

[mike777]

hrothgar, on Jun 28 2006, 09:27 PM, said:

pbleighton, on Jun 29 2006, 04:35 AM, said:

"Would I like to be able to bid a nature 2NT on this hand? Probably...
Do I think that a natural 2NT is a desirable treat ment? No... "

OK, I'll bite. 

1. What does 2NT mean to you here, in your regular partnerships?

2. What would you assume it meant with a pickup partner?

Peter

In a pickup partnership, I'd assume that 2NT was natural and non-forcing...

Here is a reasonable scheme that I used in one partnership

2♦ = Natural and non-forcing
2♥ = Natural and non-forcing
2♠ = Natural and non- forcing
2NT = 4/4 majors, GF values OR 18-20 NT
3♣ = GF values, one 4 card major
3♦ = good Diamonds, no club stopper
3♥ = good Diamonds, Hearts stopped
3♠ = good Diamonds, Spades stopped

That is fine but that is playing NFB.

[pbleighton]

"I'll ask a leading question: Is it easier to take 8 tricks in NT than 6 in clubs with this hand?"

I am bidding 2NT in the hopes that pd (who is unlimited) will have a decent hand and raise to 3. If I knew he would pass 2NT, I would certainly pass, and take a likely 200.

Peter

[hrothgar]

mike777, on Jun 29 2006, 05:32 AM, said:

That is fine but that is playing NFB.

What the hell are you talking about...

I'm assuming that your use of "NFB" is a reference to Negative Free Bids. The expression Negative Free Bid refers to auctions like

1♦ - (2♣) - 2♥

We're discussing the auction

1♦ - (2♣) - X - (P)
2♥

[mike777]

hrothgar, on Jun 28 2006, 09:40 PM, said:

mike777, on Jun 29 2006, 05:32 AM, said:

That is fine but that is playing NFB.

What the hell are you talking about...

I'm assuming that your use of "NFB" is a reference to Negative Free Bids. The expression Negative Free Bid refers to auctions like

1♦ - (2♣) - 2♥

We're discussing the auction

1♦ - (2♣) - X - (P)
2♥

ok that was not clear but ok.

[Codo]

If I have 8 or nine tricks in NT, I surely have 6 to 7 tricks in 2 Club doubled.
There are too much bidders outside who must bid 2 ♣ after 1♦ with
xx,xx,KJxx, AKxxx, so I better try to get them from time to time.

[mcphee]

I am not a big believer that rebidding D in this position should show 5 or more. It seems to me we need to allow partner room to make a neg dble with both majors and less than the expected values on hands they want to compete with. Those hands could be 5-5 majors, for example Kxxxx Qxxxx or even a lesser hand we still want to be able to show a reason to compete.

I can't see that bidding 2NT is a good plan with the given hand. I think if forced I would prefer to take my shot at beating 2C, at least it's not game if they make it. The problem with bidding S is partner will think you have them and could raise, in cases where he has the values to invite a S game or bid game in S you are beating up 2C and may have lost the best plus score and found a minus.

[han]

2D is my first choice, 2NT my second, pass my third.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I really don't like the argument that 2NT is not likely the place we want to play, so therefore it shouldn't be used as natural. It just doesn't make sense. Partner is unlimited and we know very little about his hand, if 2NT is a descriptive call then it will help partner. Note that I'm not arguing that the best use for 2NT is natural, just that I think this argument is not very useful.

Here I'm not bidding 2NT because I am afraid that we will be too high.

[mikeh]

I pass.

I am getting a ♦ lead, which rates to be good for our side.

Many players stretch to overcall 2♣ after a 1♦ opening (I do myself).

2♣ doubled, making, is not game... heck it is not even 200. Of course, an overtrick or two will cause some pain.

But on a good day, we pick up a number...800 or even 1100 is not impossible (altho the latter requires a REALLY good day).

There are hands on which partner will pass a non-forcing, natural 2N (yes, for me that is what 2N is) and we still beat 2♣ a couple of tricks or more.

[pclayton]

Here's why I posted this hand. I kibbed a TG where two stars held this hand.

They both passed, and I think pass is 100%. 2♠ is my second choice. Some knucklehead in the peanut gallery was just flabbergasted with a pass. His choices were 2N and 2♦ ( ). Unfortunately pard holds something like: Qxxx, KQxxx, Txx, x. LHO has something like: xx, AJxx, x, AKT9xx and it actually makes 3. 2N is probably down 1 or 2.

I have given the hand to 5 players that I consider W/C and they all pass too.

I have no idea where we can muster up 8 tricks in 2N. So maybe 2N goes for -100, and maybe 2♣ is -180; big deal. But the hands where we are making 2N or even 3N and I like my chances for +200 or even 500. And it could be worse if pard has a good 4432.