[kgr]

Scoring: MP

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1C-(Pas)-??
MP's: Your parnter opens 1♣ and RHO passes.
You open 5 card M and 4 card ♦. 1♣ opening can be as short as a 2-card.
With 4card♦-5card♣ partner would have opened 1♦ (with 4=6 1♣)
A bid by you does in principle promise 6+HCP.
We had a discussion about this at the club. Some pass - some bid.
What are you doing and does it make a difference that the scoring is MP's?

!!! Poll options should be 1D and 1H !!!

[mike777]

If our system agreement is a response promises 6+HCP how can we do anything but pass? I assume I agreed to this and knew what it meant. I pass and I feel strongly about this.

If our agreement is around 6hcp but can be less or more with judgement based on points one, two, three..then lets play that.

If we in fact have no agreements on this subject then I bid....

BTW as a side note this reminds me of my playing with a few partners. We agree to open 14-16 nt and we agree offshape is ok. Despite hours of discussion I cannot define what offshape is and if we have any agreements or partnership understandings beyond the fact she will not have a void.

[kgr]

mike777, on Jun 27 2006, 11:30 PM, said:

If our system agreement is a response promises 6+HCP how can we do anything but pass?

Let me clarify this. You play the standard point range for a bid: 6+HCP and you don't have any agreements on bidding with less.
BTW: with 18-19 parnter will bid a manche forcing jump.

[awm]

Depends a lot on the methods. In particular:

(1) How pushy are partner's game forces? Am I likely to wind up in game opposite an indifferent 18 if I bid?

(2) Do we normally bid up the line? If so, 1♦ will often get 1M from partner which I can pass. If not, then 1♦ will often get 1NT/2NT even with a heart fit, and this rates to be a lousy contract.

(3) Does partner normally bid 1M or 2NT over 1♣-1RED when holding 18-19 flat? If 2NT, this may be a reason to pass. If 1M, a reason to bid.

In Elianna and my style, I would bid 1♦ automatically. She normally rebids 1M if holding four, even with 18-19 flat, and I can pass. If she bids 2M she has a really big hand (like 20-21 or a lot of shape) and I'm glad I didn't pass the opening.

Playing a walsh-like "frequently bypass majors" style I think this is a much harder problem and would probably pass. Certainly 1♦ is silly in this case and if I'm going to bid 1♥ would be the call.

[kgr]

awm, on Jun 27 2006, 11:57 PM, said:

Depends a lot on the methods. In particular:

(1) How pushy are partner's game forces? Am I likely to wind up in game opposite an indifferent 18 if I bid?

with 18-19 he bids a Game force:
2NT: balanced
2M: 5-4
3D: 4diamond-6clubs
3NT: 6 card clubs, good stop(s) in Majors

Quote

(2) Do we normally bid up the line? If so, 1♦ will often get 1M from partner which I can pass. If not, then 1♦ will often get 1NT/2NT even with a heart fit, and this rates to be a lousy contract.

Almost always up the line.
(Would it be different if 1D promises a 4 card M?)

Quote

(3) Does partner normally bid 1M or 2NT over 1♣-1RED when holding 18-19 flat? If 2NT, this may be a reason to pass. If 1M, a reason to bid.

2M or 2NT

[Free]

Your methods seem to be able to handle a light 1♦ response, so that's what I'll bid. Just hoping he doesn't bid 1NT...

[han]

Depends on partnership agreement. With cherdano and inquiry we'll bid 1H with this all the time, and partner knows this.

[whereagles]

1♥ is technically superior because in case LHO butts-in, you'll have bid your major already.

[Codo]

No reasons (okay, not enough.. ) to bid...

1 ♣ X had been much more difficult for me.. Will pd really redouble for SOS with 2434 f.e.?

[hotShot]

Yes it makes a difference that it's MP, because your loss is limited (unlike at IMP's).
I would pass.
If your partner had only 2♣ opps would have a 9 card fit in ♣. So they should be unable to make a t/o dbl. Getting 5(non vul.) or 6 (vul.) tricks is good enough to win against their partscore. This should be an easy job, since partner will have top tricks in ♣ or in the side suits.
You know that partner must be 4432 for that and your side can only have a 8 card fit in ♥, and if partner has more than 2♣ your side might not have a fit at all.
Put the pressure on your LHO, and let him find a bid. If he finds something else your partner will be of the hook or he can make another bid to show his strength.
Since you can pass every rebid of your partner with at least 7 card fit, you have no problem at all.

[kgr]

I expected more bidders here at MP's because of your 'length' in D, H and S knowing that a M scoes better then a m.
Suppose you choose the bid 1♦:
1♣-1♦
3♦
With 3♦ partners shows a 6-card ♣ and a 4-card ♦ and Game forcing. 'Wtih 20+ HCP he would have opened 2♣.) Probably partner has 17 to 19 HCP.
Do you bid or pass now?

[fred]

In my opinion, the single most important factor in deciding whether or not to respond on many weak hands is the vulnerability (which is ????) in this problem.

For example, I think you will do just fine in the long run if you never pass partner's 1-level suit opening bid when you are at favorable vulnerability.

On this particular hand I don't think the vulnerability really comes into play. It is more or less routine to respond (1H in my preferred methods) in my view. If you had one more club and one less diamond or heart then Pass would be more appealling (especially if you were vulnerable).

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com