[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

do you remember who won the european championship 2004
in Portugal?

Was it Greece?
And did teams play, which clearly were more inventive
than Greece? E.g. there was a team with Nedved and Rosicky,
clearly the best team in Portugal, and there was the home team
Portugal, a team they describe in Portugal as the "Golden Generation".

You are right, teams with inventive players have an advantage,
but that can be matched by team spirit and the will to fight and
run and following laid out tacticts.
The Greek players used old fashioned methods to kill the
superstars of the opposite team, and it worked.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: I know that Greece does not play in Germany, but that does not
negate the above made statements.

PSS: Soccer is about a whole team, and there are lots of inventive players,
but only a few know, that they also have to work hard sometimes.
A great example is Zidane, who is a great player and a great team player.
There are lots of teams out there, who play "nice", but they will never
win, because they dont know, how to fight.

[slothy]

didnt even know World Cup was on!

[GeeGee]

helene_t, on Jun 11 2006, 11:05 AM, said:

The bridge clubs have a skewed sex ratio these days, too.Not sure if it would be appreciated if I showed up in bikini, though.

Nor if I did. Though lots of the members at my club have a sense of humour

Geoff

As it happens, though it's been really dull so far, I reckon that for us English fans, it will get really exciting just up to the point where we lose out on the penalty shoot-out....

Also, I am very unhappy as a Middlesbrough supporter since the 1950's when Brian Clough was centre-forward (centre-forward, what's that?), that our best manager ever, Steve Mclaren, is being promoted to be the next Engand manager failure.

Perhaps I'm just disillusioned

[the saint]

P_Marlowe, on Jun 14 2006, 08:22 AM, said:

Hi,

do you remember who won the european championship 2004
in Portugal?

Was it Greece?
And did teams play, which clearly were more inventive
than Greece? E.g. there was a team with Nedved and Rosicky,
clearly the best team in Portugal, and there was the home team
Portugal, a team they describe in Portugal as the "Golden Generation".

You are right, teams with inventive players have an advantage,
but that can be matched by team spirit and the will to fight and
run and following laid out tacticts.
The Greek players used old fashioned methods to kill the
superstars of the opposite team, and it worked.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: I know that Greece does not play in Germany, but that does not
negate the above made statements.

PSS: Soccer is about a whole team, and there are lots of inventive players,
but only a few know, that they also have to work hard sometimes.
A great example is Zidane, who is a great player and a great team player.
There are lots of teams out there, who play "nice", but they will never
win, because they dont know, how to fight.

Yes I do remember Euro 2004. Greece did win by playing to their limits within a constrained system. The fact is also that Greece were outplayed throughout the whole of that tournament but the better sides simply failed to take their chances. Credit to Greece though for taking the one chance per match they did create.

[paulg]

Another poor game from England but at least they got the result ... in the end.

I do find it pretty incredible that we have two of the better midfield players in the world, Gerrard and Lampard, who appear to be completely emasculated by the system Eriksson plays. Actually I am more amazed that this is always been the case and it never seems to change unless one of them is injured. Gerrard showed what he can do when he's is allowed in the opposition's half and I'd much rather see him, or Lampard, playing with Carrick as the holding player.

And now we'll know what to do against Sweden (draw or lose, we never win) in order to avoid Germany in the next round.

Paul

[mike777]

I read where England does not have to be celibate anymore,,,,wow modern training techniques.

[the saint]

THe England WAGS (Wives and Girlfriends) lead by Queen Posh and her colleagues Cheryl 'Slapper (In A Guildford Nightclub, allegedly)' Tweedy and Coleen 'Empress Chavette in waiting' McCloughlin have got more press than the players.

As for the footy, we are playing total sh1te, but we are still winning. England are always atrocious in the group stages - usually prior to our heroic but ultimately doomed defeat at some point in the quarter-finals. Its a mark of good sides that they win even when playing badly. On the plus side, probably Sven's best game for England. He actually made some positive subs (hurray, no Hargreaves) and we looked better for it.

[Walddk]

the saint, on Jun 15 2006, 11:19 PM, said:

Its a mark of good sides that they win even when playing badly.

You are winning needles and pins and no sympathy from the rest of the world. Hopefully this will collapse sooner rather than later and all your agony will be over. The performance until the 82nd minute was insultingly poor.

Each player should donate £50,000 to charity. By the way, who is Michael Owen? His name appeared in the line-up, but he wasn't on the pitch.

"I'll be the World Cup top scorer", he said to BBC yesterday. What a joke.

Roland

[GeeGee]

But again, as a Middlesbrough supporter, I was pleased that Stewart Downing had a chance to have his moments. I thought he did well in the short time he had.

[Gerardo]

Enjoying the day.

[the saint]

Walddk, on Jun 15 2006, 10:23 PM, said:

the saint, on Jun 15 2006, 11:19 PM, said:

Its a mark of good sides that they win even when playing badly.

You are winning needles and pins and no sympathy from the rest of the world. Hopefully this will collapse sooner rather than later and all your agony will be over. The performance until the 82nd minute was insultingly poor.

Still better than Mexico , and our Centre-halves don't go down like they have been shot by a sniper when any opposition forward comes within 6 feet of them. Pathetic. Still FIFA won't crack down on blatant cheating and they are determined to rid the game of any physical contact whatsoever. Makes me sick.

[Rain]

After the Argentinan-Serbia match, I was playing in BBO and saw that my oppo had no flag, although he's listed as being from Serbia. I lept to the conclusion that its an aftereffect of the match. (ie, edited away flag or something)

Turns out its a BBO buglet that's now resolved. The world cup affects us all in so many ways.

ommmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[mike777]

With 300 million people you would think the USA would have have one player who can score one goal in at least one World Cup game? What do these coaches teach all these soccer kids? Nothing? How to get tossed out of a World Championship game? SHHHHHssssss

12 Million illegals in the country and none of them are good enough to make this team?

Number of USA players tossed out of game=2
Number of goals scored by USA player=0

[the saint]

mike777, on Jun 18 2006, 03:50 PM, said:

With 300 million people you would think the USA would have have one player who can score one goal in at least one World Cup game? What do these coaches teach all these soccer kids? Nothing? How to get tossed out of a World Championship game? SHHHHHssssss

12 Million illegals in the country and none of them are good enough to make this team?

Number of USA players tossed out of game=2
Number of goals scored by USA player=0

Some interesting turns of phrase in that discourse...

[jdonn]

mike777, on Jun 18 2006, 10:50 AM, said:

With 300 million people you would think the USA would have have one player who can score one goal in at least one World Cup game? What do these coaches teach all these soccer kids? Nothing? How to get tossed out of a World Championship game? SHHHHHssssss

12 Million illegals in the country and none of them are good enough to make this team?

Number of USA players tossed out of game=2
Number of goals scored by USA player=0

Well were you watching?? Both of those red cards were [word that moderators would delete]. They were barely even worthy of yellow cards, they were just late tackles.

If number of people is your concern, why aren't China and India winning the world cup, eh?

[Aberlour10]

jdonn, on Jun 18 2006, 02:27 PM, said:

Well were you watching?? Both of those red cards were [word that moderators would delete]. They were barely even worthy of yellow cards, they were just late tackles.

I strongly disagree with this opinion. Both red cards have had a "deep red coulor"(dangery of very serious injuries) und the third yellow/red was correctly too.
Most of tv-commentators meant, the referee was the best man on the field.

[mike777]

jdonn, on Jun 18 2006, 02:27 PM, said:

mike777, on Jun 18 2006, 10:50 AM, said:

With 300 million people you would think the USA would have have one player who can score one goal in at least one World Cup game? What do these coaches teach all these soccer kids? Nothing? How to get tossed out of a World Championship game?  SHHHHHssssss

12 Million illegals in the country and none of them are good enough to make this team?

Number of USA players tossed out of game=2
Number of goals scored by USA player=0

Well were you watching?? Both of those red cards were [word that moderators would delete]. They were barely even worthy of yellow cards, they were just late tackles.

If number of people is your concern, why aren't China and India winning the world cup, eh?

I thought my point was very clear,,sigh.......

If Americans cannot score a goal then lets give out some Green cards to the 12 million illegals here, I bet they can.......

Lousy coaching and administration is the problem.......The same reason India and China do not do better I bet. I would expect 1 billion Chinese or Indians should qualify and be able to score at least one goal...shssssssss....

To blame the ref's on why we cannot score one goal is a poor excuse. Yankees have been scorned and ridiculed in soccer for decades...get over it and score at least one goallll

I use the analogy of American Baseball, where Major league outfielders do not know how to hit the cutoff man. These kids have been playing outfield for 10-15 years since childhood and no one taught them that? They have major league talent and yet do not know baseball basics such as bunting, etc..one can only wonder what coaches do all day long?

[Sigi_BC84]

jdonn, on Jun 18 2006, 09:27 PM, said:

Well were you watching?? Both of those red cards were [word that moderators would delete]. They were barely even worthy of yellow cards, they were just late tackles.

Josh, this is not American Football or Rugby, it's Soccer. The first red card against the US player was a clear-cut case. Imagine somebody jumps into your ankles at full speed while wearing soccer shoes -- chances are you won't play another match for a few months after such a foul (plus it hurts like hell in any case).

The referee MUST show a red card in such a case.

The second red was a yellow-red actually.

--Sigi

[jdonn]

You are right about the second, he already had a yellow. Although, correct me if I'm wrong since I may be, when a player gets his second yellow doesn't the referee flash a yellow then the red so you know how severely the foul was judged, as opposed to the second foul being worth a red card on its own? I may be wrong about that.... Also the referees in this tournament have been consistently criticized for giving too many cards thus far, averaging upward of 5 per game.

The first red against the US was a joke, an absolute joke. Anyone who thinks that was worthy of a anything more than a yellow card either had their mind already made up or simply wasn't watching. The tackle was late from behind, but it was merely hard, not vicious (the spikes were down, which is crucial). What are you talking about won't play another match for months, the player wasn't even hurt. When the Italian got a red card he gave a US player a face full of blood and 3 stitches (he went for the HEAD, that's why he got a red card.)

I'll mention 2 more things. One is that this particular referee was suspended for 6 months in 2002 for irregularities (meaning corruption). The other is that he has a history of a negative view of the United States, awarding what I've read was a questionable penalty kick against them to Turkey in 2003, though I didn't see it myself.

And no Mike, it's not the official's fault that the US as usual has trouble scoring. Yes we have been ridiculed in soccer for a long time, for good reason (especially considering the first game they played), although if all you want for that to end is a goal then I think we took care of that in the last world cup making the quarterfinals...

[cphastrup]

jdonn, on Jun 18 2006, 11:10 PM, said:

The first red against the US was a joke, an absolute joke. Anyone who thinks that was worthy of a anything more than a yellow card either had their mind already made up or simply wasn't watching. The tackle was late from behind, but it was merely hard, not vicious (the spikes were down, which is crucial).

You must be mixing up the two red cards (Which were both direct red as far as I can tell from the highlights). The first red card I can't see why anyone would dispute. Spikes down? You must thinking about the second red card, which is maybe more "orange", but it's still a reckless, risky challenge from behind.

2 minutes of higlights - including the red cards:
http://youtube.com/w...rch=usa%20italy

Edit: The second one was a yellow-red, according to the match reports. So now I can't disagree with any of the red cards at all.