[mike777]

In a 2/1-Walsh setting was is the best usage for:

1C=P=1D=(1S)
X


Please assume:
1C=3+
1D=natural, with a less than game force hand and no 4 card major or natural and with a game force hand.

[coyot]

I'd still stick with negative double, showing 4 hearts with under-reverse strength. In this position, I have all the space I need to bid:

1) Weak balanced without stopper (pass)
2) Weak balanced with stopper (1NT)
3) Long clubs (2♣)
4) 4 diamonds (2♦)
5) Heart reverse (2♥).

Of course, having the agreement with partner, I could happily pass as we would still find the heart suit if he has 4 of them - so this double could then be natural strong (15+ 4441 or 18-19 balanced, both times with 4 good spades).

[FrancesHinden]

I don't know what is best, but I still play this as a support double.

[MickyB]

Neither do I, but I play it as takeout.

I strongly disagree that 1NT shows 12-14 with a stopper - for me that is a routine pass, 1NT shows 18-19. Maybe 1NT should actually show 16+, either balanced or 5♣4♠.

[jdonn]

MickyB, on May 2 2006, 09:52 AM, said:

Neither do I, but I play it as takeout.

I strongly disagree that 1NT shows 12-14 with a stopper - for me that is a routine pass, 1NT shows 18-19. Maybe 1NT should actually show 16+, either balanced or 5♣4♠.

The standard meaning for 1NT is still the minimum range, 12-14. You can pass with that hand too, it's up to you based on your holding in their suit and your hand in general. Just because they overcalled is no reason at that you can't belong in 1NT.

[MickyB]

Yes, but...grr It is a silly meaning for 1NT, you can still reach it even if you don't bid it immediately (partner can bid 1NT or make a takeout double). It seems to me that bidding is risking a penalty and giving the opponents more options for very little gain.

[mike777]

For this thread you may assume 1c denies 14-16(1NT opener) or 18-19(Mexican 2D opener) and balanced, thanks.

[whereagles]

MickyB, on May 2 2006, 02:52 PM, said:

Neither do I, but I play it as takeout.

I strongly disagree that 1NT shows 12-14 with a stopper - for me that is a routine pass, 1NT shows 18-19. Maybe 1NT should actually show 16+, either balanced or 5♣4♠.

I wouldn't discard 1NT as showing the high-end of a 12-14 NT. Sure, pard might be a bit on the weakish side, but you have to play the odds: usually he'll have a few points to make 1NT a safe haven, and besides a nat 1NT will be quite descriptive.

You can also loosen up the requirements a bit and allow for some unbalanced hands with spade stop to be put into 1NT. Just make sure you have 2 hearts

[jdonn]

MickyB, on May 2 2006, 10:27 AM, said:

Yes, but...grr It is a silly meaning for 1NT, you can still reach it even if you don't bid it immediately (partner can bid 1NT or make a takeout double). It seems to me that bidding is risking a penalty and giving the opponents more options for very little gain.

A partscore swing is still a gain You have KQT Axx xx KJTxx, how bad is 1NT likely to be? And why would partner reopen with xx QJx Qxxxx Qxx?

Like I said, if you are worried about a penalty then feel free to pass. But it shouldn't be imposed on you since you might actually want to bid.

[Double !]

hi all

playing walsh style, we play this as a support double (I can see a case for using this as showing hearts)
is this the theoretically best use of the bid? I don't know but at least we have clear and consistent agreement.

DHL

[Kalvan14]

Playing Walsh style, it must be a support double. If pard has hearts and a strong hand, she'll show them.