[sceptic]

Justin, I really doubt you want to leave BBF, so why post your goodbyes?

Some times people do things that annoy us all, having a post deleted is not as bad as having your house burgled, so try put things in prospective, rain has a hard job to do and your post does not make it any easier for her

I am now bored with this thread

[h2osmom]

Sceptic's posts are not good posts; they are personally attacking. He has stated that he does not think well of the original poster as well as called him names. Nothing about this was deserved, or called for. Justin's original post, even though it expressed vehement disagreement, did not attack or call names. He never stated that he didn't like anyone. Sceptic has said that Justin will not lose sleep over this; how does he know? Sceptic has put words in other people's mouths and been disrespectful. I think if we are going to discuss who has more to offer as far as bridge discussion than Justin does, many will agree that there are few. I appreciate the clarification from the moderators posted here, and none of their posts are at all incendiary. But Sceptic's posts, and those supporting him, are personal attacks, which was never deserved.

[joshs]

Oy.

First, I think this whole thing as been blown way out of proportion. I hope that justin reconsiders leaving the forum, since its great having his involvement in these discussions. I think many players can learn a lot from him.

I personally think that mentioning a blog that Justin likes (and I like also, and I have never even read the bridge content on the blog, but find Aaron's philosophical ramblings to be interesting) shouldn't be cause for deleting a message. I understand that there is something on that blog which is damaging to someone else, and I understand both from general principles of a community and from a legal point of view why BBO wants to dissociate itself from that content. Having said that, there is stuff on fox news's website that I find offensive and involve personal attacks on people (maybe even a BBO member?) but I would be the first to object that all references/links to fox news be eliminated.

I alsoo understand why justin was offended by his post getting deleted. I do wish he can understand why is was deleted, and even if he disagrees with that decision, like I do, he can accept that decision as at least being made with good motives in mind, whether or not you agree with the detailed excecution.

There is also a slippery slope here, since if I provided a link to justin's web site, and his website has a link to aaron's website, should we be deleting that message also?

Again, I don't even understand why people derive pleasure from
a. watching bad bridge
b. making fun of it

but then again I didn't like mystery science theater 3000 for the same reason. A bad movie is still a bad movie, and getting to make fun of it doesn't improve it all that much....

Can I declare a bridge version of national brotherhood week? Maybe rain can apologize for not taking enough time to explain to justin why BBO doesn't allow certain links to appear on its sites (we appreciate the job you do rain, its just that almost everything you deal with is very sensative, maybe you need a sensative sounding form letter), and justin can apologize for ignoring rain's call on this and continously reposting the link.

In any case, aaron hasn't had any new content for a year, so I think under the:
"I post therefore I blog" definition, its not even a blog anymore....

[Flame]

I know your feeling Justin, i once got suspention fron BBO for few days for something i didnt do, I felt like i was betrayed by my own family, it was triable because ot came from the same ppl i admire and care about. However looking back i just have to accept it that the system cant be perfect, and we sometimes have to live with the mistakes made by it. If the system makes 1% mistakes then you can think of yourself as someone who helped the system by taking this 1% on your back.

[sceptic]

I have decided I am not bored anymore

for h2osmom

Quote

Edit: I see my warn level was also added to. I'll let you guess by who. That's nice, thank you.

irrespective of who wrote this, IMHO, it is a snide comment on the end of a post, similar to a verbal dig at the end of a conversation.

I consider this as bad as any comment I have made, this is my opinion and I have no problem with it.

let me try to explain myself, I am trying to express to Justin how I feel about his post and the fact I think it was not nice.

I am not good with words, but I am trying to be as reasonable as I can.

You are sticking up for your friend Justin, who I am sure is a decent human being, I am sticking up for rain as I know she is a decent human being.

and please rain never deserved Justins comments i.e.

Quote

IF the moderators do a good job (like ben and uday always have

the implications here are as bad as any insult I may have been perceived as making. I think he should apologise to Rain for his post, but again that is only my opinion

[kenberg]

No doubt everyone is wondering who the "member in question" is. It's me! Everyone hates me. They say terrible things about me. On Blogs. In Fortune Cookies. Everywhere. Justin must be stopped. But who will stop the Rain? In Spain? On the Plain?

Ken

PS Best wishes to everyone involved and I hope you sort it all out. If a drink will help, I'll buy.

[luke warm]

sceptic, on May 1 2006, 04:31 PM, said:

Jimmy

I do not consider what I said that derogatory, they may be near the mark, but just because I do not have the ability to express myself as eloquently as some of you lot do, it does not mean I am stupid nor does it mean I can't have an opinion.

I did not like this post and I have said so, I do not have a good opinion of the original poster, but I am sure that he wont lose any sleep over that and how do you know I have not been warned or spoken to about my posts.

are you now an oracle LOL

wayne, i know you aren't the least bit stupid and you express yourself just fine... but you hafta admit that you didn't hide the fact that your comments to/about justin were made intentionally (hell, you *said* so)... yet, even though some might find the content of your posts offensive and even though that content was intentionally entered, your posts have not been deleted...

so my point was, justin denied offending anyone period, much less intentionally, yet his post was deleted... you admit to intentionally posting what many people have said are offensive comments, yet your posts haven't been deleted

doesn't that make all of this appear (as justin hinted at) somewhat personal?

[h2osmom]

Justin doesn't need me to defend him, and that is not my point. I know who Justin is, I think he knows who I am, we met one time about 6 years ago, have spoken online one time after that, and have some friends in common. You are wrong about the intention of my responses here. My responses stopped being about Justin long ago.

[luke warm]

'zactly right, carol

[glen]

Rain, on May 1 2006, 08:27 PM, said:

I have some things to say...

Your first post was : My favourite blog was xxxxxx
I deleted the whole thread because, as Dean stated, that blog was most famous for deriding another member. We don't allow that url in BBO. We won't allow it in BBF either. Since the main gist of your post would be gone when I deleted that thread, I decided to erase the whole thread, and instead write the reasons its deleted. (Instead of editing it I mean).

I'm confused - initially did you delete a whole thread, as you said you did, or one post?

Assuming it was one post, I believe the offending link should have been removed, the rest of the post kept even if the gist might be lost, and the poster informed not to use the link again. Deleting a post should not be done if an edit will fix the problem, even if the post loses some context. Likewise deleting a whole thread should not be done if removing a post will fix the problem.

To Justin, I suggest you keep a copy of lengthy posts you make, if you continue to make them on BBO. Then if/when one is deleted, you can post it on your blog (and/or rec.games.bridge), with a note that it was censored. Since censored material gets a larger audience, you will find it gets read by more than would have done so without censorship, thus defeating the delete.

I've been a victim of a clearly unreasonable mod in a sports forum, and despite the efforts of a whole bunch of senior members to have the mod see the light, it did not get resolved quickly. So I ended up at another forum, and it turned out to be much better. Having said that, I think BBO forums are well worth the investment in time, and one should not allow some temporary aggravation to stop your posting here.

[pigpenz]

Rain, on May 1 2006, 03:27 PM, said:

2) Jdonn, Sceptic, Pigpenz, whoever.

I think sceptic's post is much less offensive than being called "officious" or now, after the edit, labelled a terrorist. Babies can be cute. Terrorists, never. But both can stand unless other moderators want to remove it.

Rain?????
i think you misunderstood the terrorist part......!
its often been said that if the 911 terrorists affect your life then they have won by taking away some of your freedoms.......for Jlall then if he decides not to post on here cause he got his hand slapped then they have won. He should just stay here and keep posting and get his hand slapped some more like I continually get mine slapped

[Sigi_BC84]

My briefly stated opinion on this farce:

1. After I've found out about the blog in question, I must say that there is a lot of interesting reading on there and it took me a while to find the part of it which is apparently offensive to some. Somebody certainly gets ridiculed there, but if the quotes are authentic I must say that is for a reason (sorry dude...). The blog certainly is not about bridge in general, and if Justin likes it I think you should not disallow his link because somebody might be offended by a small part of the site.

2. IF you think you had to censor in this case, it should have been done more carefully, i.e. by providing some explanation in the edit about the reason. Also the replies by Justin should not have been edited out completely.

3. Justin, take a time out and return after a while. A lot of people would miss your contributions to this forums.

I've seen worse things happening on public forums (being partly guilty in one case even), this issue is being taken a bit too serious in my eyes.

After all the other heated Water Cooler discussions about really serious topics now this gets turned into a major issue. How ironic.

--Sigi

[Badmonster]

Justin, I totally get the concept of voting with your feet. However, I want to point out that chances are that you'll miss talking with us (the bbf community) almost as much as we'll miss reading your posts. So, you'll make your point, but you'll leave a hole, and you may not be happier for it. I'll miss you.

Come back.

[kenberg]

I have been putting 2 and 2 together here, and I guess I get what happened.

I am aware of the fact that a cadre of players have somehow come to regard the ridicule of one individual as a great group entertainment. While face to face razzing that has a beginning and an end is part of life, maybe even a useful part of life in its educational aspects, this prolonged public assault demeans us all. Apparently nothing will put a stop to it, indeed the practitioners take pride in the criticism they receive.


I can simply ignore the assault. Not my business. However BBO has a site with a forum, so they cannot entirely escape the issue. I gather the bbo staff has decided not to allow its site to support this activity, however indirectly. There is something to be said for this decision.

Sadistic behavior rarely leads to anything good. This thread seems to bear that out.

K

[Badmonster]

kenberg, on May 1 2006, 10:53 PM, said:

I have been putting 2 and 2 together here, and I guess I get what happened.

I am aware of the fact that a cadre of players have somehow come to regard the ridicule of one individual as a great group entertainment. While face to face razzing that has a beginning and an end is part of life, maybe even a useful part of life in its educational aspects, this prolonged public assault demeans us all. Apparently nothing will put a stop to it, indeed the practitioners take pride in the criticism they receive.


I can simply ignore the assault. Not my business. However BBO has a site with a forum, so they cannot entirely escape the issue. I gather the bbo staff has decided not to allow its site to support this activity, however indirectly. There is something to be said for this decision.

Sadistic behavior rarely leads to anything good. This thread seems to bear that out.

K

Ken I agree with you to an extent. I had someone point out that whole business to me on rec.games. bridge, and thought it seemed like a sign of deevolution. Like apes our baser nature seems geared towards finding someone to throw out of the pack. But I don't think that issue is THE issue here.

The issue seems to be that someone who is a huge contributer, and large part of these forums is hurt and leaving. Another issue is that the whole thing is probably very uncomfortable for Rain as well.

Is it possible to restore a post? If it is can the post be restored without the link? And if it could would that be enough to make everyone if not happy, at least not unhappy?

[pigpenz]

this whole thing reminds me of how some were posting about G@@@@d. When they were banned from here it just went to newsgroups. .Maybe what rains needs to do is put some sort of disclaimer when joining the forums .....thats the posts here dont necessarily reflect the views or opinons of BridgeBase Online.....then the posts will police themselves......in otherwords if its interesting it will keep going if not it will die it out.....I think it should up to the users of the forums to decide the relevance, good or bad of a post....and a disclaimer would take care of the liablity of BBO. If a post is bad and users feel it is not apropriate then the users will let the poster know. does this not have something to do with the freedom of speach?

[Kalvan14]

Badmonster, on May 1 2006, 10:46 PM, said:

Justin, I totally get the concept of voting with your feet. However, I want to point out that chances are that you'll miss talking with us (the bbf community) almost as much as we'll miss reading your posts. So, you'll make your point, but you'll leave a hole, and you may not be happier for it. I'll miss you.

Come back.

Badmonster has expressed my feelings too.

I'll miss you too, Justin: come back

[Flame]

I think its also important to see the actual result of the cencoring, I didnt know there is someone who doesnt like someone else and talk about him over the net, im sure alot and probelby most members didnt knew about it either, but with all this mess i got curious and found the site. The truth it i still didnt find the it because the site with tons of information but i wiill probebly find it. Suppose the post havent been delelted , most likely nothing would have happend, noone who didnt know wouldnt have discovered something new.

[Brandal]

Flame, on May 2 2006, 03:50 AM, said:

I think its also important to see the actual result of the cencoring, I didnt know there is someone who doesnt like someone else and talk about him over the net, im sure alot and probelby most members didnt knew about it either, but with all this mess i got curious and found the site. The truth it i still didnt find the it because the site with tons of information but i wiill probebly find it. Suppose the post havent been delelted , most likely nothing would have happend, noone who didnt know wouldnt have discovered something new.

Yeah....I have no idea whatsoever what this is about,
but:

If I was ridiculed on some more or less "obscure" blog,
I certainly would not like it linked in here,whatever the
ridiculing was about.

I always ask myself "what if this was me",when facing
issues not concerning me directly.

I don't want to have an opinion,since I don't know anything
about this blog/link.

Ultimatums don't work well online Justin,that I do know...

There's always two sides,no matter how thin you slice it

[Al_U_Card]

If I say privately to another person "So-and-so, is such a ....." Then that person can evaluate my statement, my motives and decide for themself whether to keep or change their opinion of me and/or the person referenced.

When a public statement is made, all the above goes out the window. People like to criticize and belittle others to make themselves feel more comfortable. We all have good and bad qualities. Public attacks are way too easy to be taken out of context and to be given credence simply because they were made in a public forum....

Rain is performing a duty conferred upon her by management. Her guidelines are clear and they are well described for all to see. Keeping the riff-raff out will only improve the situation as those miscreants will either toe-the-line or leave, and good riddance to those that do.