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*Constructive raise
3NT went down 6 on best defense. (double dummy declarer can make down 5)
Assign the blame between North and South for the bad result.
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Blame Game Again
#1
- Deipnosophist
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Posted 2006-April-29, 18:23
*Constructive raise
3NT went down 6 on best defense. (double dummy declarer can make down 5)
Assign the blame between North and South for the bad result.
"Half the people you know are below average." - Steven Wright
#2
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Posted 2006-April-29, 18:37
South 100%.
Some might question 1♣, others might question 3NT (instead of 4♦), but 3♥ is so uncalled for, it has to take the full blame. Let's investigate from South's point of view, over 1♠, dbl was negative and showed ♥'s and presumably ♦'s and insufficient values for a free bid. This is EXACTLY what he has. In fact, he is on the low end of this range. SOUTH described his accurately with his first bid, both hcp and estimated distribution. His partner is now the captain, he has no RIGHT to bid 3♥ here. ---- Especially since the auction is not over (and partner with a few ♥'s could have DOUBLED 2♥ bid, which HE DID NOT).
A final point south's pass DOES NOT END the auction. If south passes, and North happens to balance back in then 3♦ becomes possible and that woud be much better than 3♥X or 3NTX.
Some might question 1♣, others might question 3NT (instead of 4♦), but 3♥ is so uncalled for, it has to take the full blame. Let's investigate from South's point of view, over 1♠, dbl was negative and showed ♥'s and presumably ♦'s and insufficient values for a free bid. This is EXACTLY what he has. In fact, he is on the low end of this range. SOUTH described his accurately with his first bid, both hcp and estimated distribution. His partner is now the captain, he has no RIGHT to bid 3♥ here. ---- Especially since the auction is not over (and partner with a few ♥'s could have DOUBLED 2♥ bid, which HE DID NOT).
A final point south's pass DOES NOT END the auction. If south passes, and North happens to balance back in then 3♦ becomes possible and that woud be much better than 3♥X or 3NTX.
--Ben--
#3
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Posted 2006-April-29, 18:53
South gets 100%, North gets another 100%, system gets another 100%. The rest is just bad luck 
#4
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Posted 2006-April-29, 19:04
I must agree with David that the 3H and 3NT calls were both deserving of 100% of the blame. 3H should be at least a good 6 card suit, and 3NT with a misfit and no values is horrible. (If they must add up to 100%, let's go 51% S, 49% N because South's call came first.)
The "system" has nothing to do with it, however: nobody's forcing you to introduce your crappy 5 card heart suit at the 3-level just because you've only shown 4 so far.
Andy
The "system" has nothing to do with it, however: nobody's forcing you to introduce your crappy 5 card heart suit at the 3-level just because you've only shown 4 so far.
Andy
#5 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2006-April-29, 20:33
I see things differently.
I will not argue with the premise that 3H is a bad bid. However, it has a definite up side. Partner, with at most 2 spades will usually have at least 2 hearts, and will often have 3. It may be your partscore, you may push them up, and you may even find a game you would not have found otherwise.
On the other hand, 3N has no up side. 3N is never going to make, and will often go for a huge number. Facing a misfit with 10 points opposite at most 9, often less, 3N is not the place to be, especially with 1 stopper in the opponents suit. The less high card points you have, the more likely it is to be in a trump suit. A 6-1 with a bad break won't do well, but its not a catastrophe. Even a 5-1 is going to be better than 3N. 3N is not a well thought out bid.
Sitting for 3N X also can't be right, again partner didn't bid 2H directly. You have less than half the deck, a misfit, and only 1 stopper. How bad can 4C X be compared to 3N?
I think norths bidding had no upside and was destined for the result that occured.
I will not argue with the premise that 3H is a bad bid. However, it has a definite up side. Partner, with at most 2 spades will usually have at least 2 hearts, and will often have 3. It may be your partscore, you may push them up, and you may even find a game you would not have found otherwise.
On the other hand, 3N has no up side. 3N is never going to make, and will often go for a huge number. Facing a misfit with 10 points opposite at most 9, often less, 3N is not the place to be, especially with 1 stopper in the opponents suit. The less high card points you have, the more likely it is to be in a trump suit. A 6-1 with a bad break won't do well, but its not a catastrophe. Even a 5-1 is going to be better than 3N. 3N is not a well thought out bid.
Sitting for 3N X also can't be right, again partner didn't bid 2H directly. You have less than half the deck, a misfit, and only 1 stopper. How bad can 4C X be compared to 3N?
I think norths bidding had no upside and was destined for the result that occured.
#6
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Posted 2006-April-29, 20:45
inquiry, on Apr 30 2006, 12:37 AM, said:
SOUTH described his accurately with his first bid, both hcp and estimated distribution. His partner is now the captain
Not really. South's double is unlimited, so he might still have something to say.
As for the rest, justin's analysis is technically very good, so no more comments.
#7
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Posted 2006-April-29, 20:50
I also agree with Justin's comments. 3♥ would also not have been my choice, but 3NT is just way out there.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#8
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Posted 2006-April-29, 21:09
mostly agree with david, just no 100% for north 
50% south, 50% system
50% south, 50% system
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
#9
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Posted 2006-April-30, 02:30
I don't like the 3♥ bid. When partner opens my singleton I am never keen to stretch in the bidding and South had already bid his values with the double.
But 3NT is just wierd. Partner can't have a strong hand or else he would have bid 2♥ on the first round. Hence he has a weak hand with long ♥ (OK he doesn't have that hand, but he should!). There is no way that 3NT is going to be better than 3♥.
But 3NT is just wierd. Partner can't have a strong hand or else he would have bid 2♥ on the first round. Hence he has a weak hand with long ♥ (OK he doesn't have that hand, but he should!). There is no way that 3NT is going to be better than 3♥.
#10
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Posted 2006-April-30, 12:23
1. North opened a hand I would pass. I see nothing wrong with overcalling later on hands like this.
2. The negative double is fine.
3. North showed a little restraint by not rebidding the 6 bagger.
4. 3♥; well..OK. If you are mining for a fit, hearts looks like a possible spot. But its an overbid on such a lousy suit.
5. 3N. What? Huh? 4♣ is clear. Did North think they were playing NFB's? If South can't find a direct 2♥ call, how can 3N even have a play?
I will occasionally have auctions like this when I am tired or am playing for the hell of it. I don't worry about the result too much.
2. The negative double is fine.
3. North showed a little restraint by not rebidding the 6 bagger.
4. 3♥; well..OK. If you are mining for a fit, hearts looks like a possible spot. But its an overbid on such a lousy suit.
5. 3N. What? Huh? 4♣ is clear. Did North think they were playing NFB's? If South can't find a direct 2♥ call, how can 3N even have a play?
I will occasionally have auctions like this when I am tired or am playing for the hell of it. I don't worry about the result too much.
"Phil" on BBO
#11
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Posted 2006-April-30, 15:20
Yeah.. "escaping" to 3NT is kinda lacking on common sense. This is surely going down. (Unless the 3NT bidder thought 3♥ was showing some kind of strong hand.)
#12
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Posted 2006-April-30, 16:45
Both 3♥ and 3NT show varying degrees of insanity, unless 2♥ directly was non forcing how can north think 3NT is right?
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P - 1♣ - 1♠ - X
2♥* - P - 2♠ - 3♥
X - 3NT - X - All Pass