[pigpenz]

xx1943, on Apr 26 2006, 01:31 AM, said:

I'm not only interested in your bid, but the reasons why, because I couldn't convince my partner.

Well Al, if you were trying to convince JMVR good luck!

[joshs]

awm, on Apr 26 2006, 01:22 PM, said:

I wonder how many people would open on:

Jxxxx
Qxx
AK
Qxx

I think this hand is probably worse than the hand given, hcp not withstanding. Of course these are both bad hands, but I see very few people pass 4333 12-counts these days, much less 5332 12-counts.

Funny how magical the 12th high card point seems to be.

I only open that playing a strong club. A few of my partner's (Timo Erkoc for instance) used to yell at me everytime I passed a 12 count, and thats not that infrequent playing a standard system.... (I probably open about 90% of balanced 12 counts)

[mike777]

joshs, on Apr 26 2006, 05:55 PM, said:

awm, on Apr 26 2006, 01:22 PM, said:

I wonder how many people would open on:

Jxxxx
Qxx
AK
Qxx

I think this hand is probably worse than the hand given, hcp not withstanding. Of course these are both bad hands, but I see very few people pass 4333 12-counts these days, much less 5332 12-counts.

Funny how magical the 12th high card point seems to be.

I only open that playing a strong club. A few of my partner's (Timo Erkoc for instance) used to yell at me everytime I passed a 12 count, and thats not that infrequent playing a standard system.... (I probably open about 90% of balanced 12 counts)

easy opener. I could have worse.

[luis]

1♠ of course.
Best argument? Lead directing

[whereagles]

luis, on Apr 27 2006, 12:31 AM, said:

1♠ of course.
Best argument? Lead directing

it will sure come handy if opps bid to 3NT

[xx1943]

ochinko, on Apr 26 2006, 08:18 PM, said:

Al, you're not fair. The scoring was MP, not IMP.

Hi Petko,

you are rite. The tourney was MP. I apologize.

I put the tourney into Wayne's linconverter nd posted what I got, without checking the way of scoring. My fault.

Very sorry.

Regards

Al

[ochinko]

No problem at all. Obviously my bid (2Sp) was wrong even at mp. Learning something is more important.

Thanks for your cooperation and advice. I'm looking forward to play with you again sometime.

Petko

[sfbp]

Y'all need to realise what a rare hand this is.

Having all those X's and not even a Jack in the suit when you have 11 points is rather unusual. In the large BRBR data set with 24 million hands (500,000 boards), there were only 10 where dealer had a hand that satisfied the characteristics:

- Exactly 11 points
- Exactly xxxxxx in spades
- Exactly 6322 shape

So trying to build any system to account for hands like this is probably a losing proposition. What's the least lie

BTW, BRBR says that (in first seat) on those 10 boards at least, it's better to pass. I am surprised.

However I am sure it is a lot safer to open when you are playing limited openers in a strong club system for example

[pigpenz]

Has anyone run the hand through any simulators?

[jdeegan]

To answer your original question, I would open 1♠. My logical analysis originally said to pass the hand, but I could not bring myself to actually do it. Opening 1♠ feels OK to me, but Pass makes me feel uncomfortable because there are too many ways the auction can get out of control. 1♠, by contrast, feels safe because the hand has so much playing potential.

[coyot]

I would certainly feel that by opening the hand 1♠ the action already got out of control.

Lead-directing... partner will lead his doubleton king, more often than not losing a natural trick

Value-showing - we might end up in a bad 3NT or miss a good game in another suit, because partner thinks that his spade void is a liability rather than an asset.

I'll gladly pass and wait what happens. On many hands, I'll be able to sell the spades later on reopen, or at least find out what partner has.

[pigpenz]

I ran the hand through simulator with DEALMASTERPRO

Results for spade contractsts are

7-82%
8-62%
9-40%
10-24%
11-12%

you can take those amount of tricks in spade contract

[moysian]

At first blush, I opened 1s (rule of 20), and can sympathized with with those who chose to pass.

After more thought, I choose "pass," because it offers more safety on those hands where partner is inclined to venture higher than 2s (the better his hand, the more you wished you had passed at the outset).

Opening 1s works best when you can buy the hand cheaply for 2s, or if partner competes to 3s. (Maybe 2s opener not so bad!). Passing, and backing in later can accomplish the same.

Lastly, if the hand belongs to the opponents, your pesky side suit values can wreak more havoc on the opponents if you never bid, than if you opened the hand. On offense, these values are much less useful (unless partner has a good hand, but then you need not worry about passing in the first place.)