[42]

Hi!

Scoring: IMP

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You open 1♦, but the nasty LHO intervenes with 2NT (♥s + ♣s, 55+, point range is not specified). Your dear partner grabs 3♥ out of his box which shows 12+ with ♠s, RHO passes:
1♦ (2NT!) 3♥! P
???
- should you decide to bid 3NT, it would go P P 4♣. And now?
- 4♦: it is not really clear if it is already minorwood since no fit is agreed. The main arrangement so far is, that 4m is always minorwood in an uncontested auction (this is imo a field which needs to be discussed more precisely... any thought and help is appreciated!)
What do you think and what would you do?
Thx!
Caren
PS: sorry for another dumb bidding question

[hotShot]

I won't go for 3 NT, i have a 4 looser hand and partner has 12+ HCP, we are in the slam zone. Worst thing that can happen is that partner does not have the ♠A and RHO gets the first trick, finessing ♥ to his partner.
But for this to happen LHO's ♣ must be xxxxx and RHO can't have more than ♠A (and a J).

Our agreement about minorwood is:
Any unforced (by opps) 4m that is repeating an own suit or raising partners suit is minorwood. If it is the own suit it is suit setting as well.
Example:
1♦ - p 1♥ - 3♠
4♦
Not minorwood, because forced by opps.
1♦ - p 2♥ - 3♣
4♦
Minorwood suit setting, because unforced by opps.

Disadvantages, if you pass 3NT and you don't want to go to slam (e.g. your example but 3♥ is much weaker) you have to bid 5m at once.

So i can bid 4♦, minorwood without a problem.

[FrancesHinden]

42, on Apr 11 2006, 09:53 AM, said:

I wouldn't bid 3NT.
I would bid 4D, natural and forcing (partner has game forced) over 3H.

Quote

- 4♦: it is not really clear if it is already minorwood since no fit is agreed. The main arrangement so far is, that 4m is always minorwood in an uncontested auction (this is imo a field which needs to be discussed more precisely... any thought and help is appreciated!)

Thoughts: don't play minorwood.
Second thoughts: if you like minorwood, a better agreement is that 4m is only minorwood if it can't be natural
Additional thoughts: If that is too undefined, don't play minorwood in a competitive auction
Addtional thoughts: If that still isn't good enough, don't play minorwood as a non-jump bid in a competitive auction.

There is simply no way you can say that 4D asks for aces on this auction, either when bidding it over partner's 3H bid, or if you bid 3NT then 4D over 4C. You should be able to work this out at the table without having discussed it:

- Over partner's 3H bid, what are you supposed to bid with a worse hand with a lot of diamonds and without 9 tricks? Something like

x
Jxx
KQJxxxx
Ax

4D has just to be natural otherwise you are without a good bid.

- If you bid 3NT the previous round and partner passed, you can't now want to bid 4D to ask for aces: the hand can't have changed from wanting to play in game to wanting to play a slam after partner was happy to pass 3NT.

[Gerben42]

Quote

PS: sorry for another dumb bidding question wink.gif

There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers.

4♦ would NOT be minorwood here since the fit has not been set. 4♦ would just mean: gee, I have a LOT of ♦!

I think 3NT is okay, and after p p 4♣ I bid 4♦. If partner then bids 4NT I pass.

[42]

My thoughts, when I bid 3NT, were that I wanted to tell p that I have a stronger hand than this
x
Jxx
KQJxxxx
Ax,

with 2 controls in opp's suits, no ♠-fit. I must admit that I have sometimes a worst case scenario in mind, partner might have such a hand:

KQJxx
AQ
xxx
Jxx,

and we loose ♠A and a ♣ after ♣ lead. So I was hoping to transmit the message that values outside ♠ are really fine when I bid 4♦ after 4♣, showing overlength in ♦s. Perhaps far too complicated (btw: 1♦ is limited to 17).
Partner had:
Q10542
AQJ
QJ4
94 and 6♦ was cold, it wasn't bid on the other table, too (no excuse )

[hotShot]

3NT is almost never a forcing bid. I usually ague that bidding is a cooperative effort, but sometimes one has to take captaincy. You know that ♦ is your fit, you know how little is needed to make the slam. So it is your turn to ask. You hold a hand with only 4looser, that is nearly gameforcing (3looser). You hold an 8card suit, with 9 developed tricks if the ♦ are 2-2-1 distributed. There is no way that partner will expect this hand. The 1♦ opening is to weak for your hand. It is the right openig bid for your hand, but now you have to do something forcing.

[cherdano]

You just have to rebid that diamond suit, with so much shape and controls, a singleton in partner's suit is not enough to bid 3N. You might make 6♦ with 3N going down...

I agree with Frances on the merits of minorwood.

Arend

[pclayton]

Hands like this are the reason I prefer kickback to minorwood.

4♦ is forcing. Wouldn't it be handy if pard could now bid 4♥ as key card?

I've played minorwood in the past, but in a cramped auction, 4♦ shouldn't ask for aces.

[mikeh]

I would rather have bid 6N than 3N: not that I would have bid 6N, but I really think 3N is a poor choice: I can see it with, say, x Kxx AKQxxx Axx, but those extra ♦ are worth a lot on this auction.

So 4♦ for me originally.

Admittedly, 4♦ could and usually would be a weaker hand, but it is forcing and thus unlimited.

Having underbid with 3N, I have to make a strong bid now, and once again 4♦ is forcing. I expect partner will usually bid 4N, to play, and that will leave me endplayed in the auction. But the endplay was self-inflicted via 3N.

One should never try to recover from a previous mistake by over-compensating. It wrecks partnerships. Better to stay consistent and then apologize to partner for the original underbid rather than drive partner nuts by an unprovoked reversal of views.

Just hope that partner has a poor hand: say KQJxxx QJx Qx Kx where you are off 2 aces.

BTW, for what it is worth, I strongly dislike minorwood. Kickback is almost as space efficient and allows for 4 minor to agree trump and ask for cue-bidding. Far too many aspiring bridge players overlook cue-bidding as the best route to slam, and by doing so are limiting their growth and enjoyment.

[whereagles]

I think the bid that comes closer to describe this hand is 5♦, though you'll probably miss slam anyway.