[hrothgar]

IMPs Vul versus Vul

♠ AQJ
♥ Q5
♦ KT75
♣ AQJ8

(1♠ - X - (P) - 3♥
(P) - ???


I assume that there's not much debate regarding the initial double.
What's your rebid over partner's 3♥ advance?

[mikeh]

3N: wtp?

I doubled intending to rebid Notrump to show a hand too big to overcall 1N. How does 3N not show that hand? Sorry, but this seems like a non-problem. Is it part 1 of a multi-part? (I intend to bid 4♠ if he bids 4 minor next )

[HeartA]

mikeh, on Apr 5 2006, 06:08 PM, said:

3N: wtp?

ditto.

[hatchett]

Not so interesting answer 3NT

[whereagles]

mikeh, on Apr 5 2006, 11:08 PM, said:

I doubled intending to rebid Notrump to show a hand too big to overcall 1N. How does 3N not show that hand?

Well.. maybe because it might show..

AQ
xxx
KTxx
AJxx

The point is: even if 3NT only makes sense as 18-19 balanced, I'm pretty sure pard is capable of producing another hand for the same auction

Anyway, the answer is still the same: 3NT, wtp?

[zimzam]

by counting points here, partner must have a extremly ♥-shaped weak HP-hand. 4♥ must be the bid. Highly probably communication problems in 3N. 4H I think will give 2 spade 5+ hearts, 1 diamond and 2 club-tricks.... or something close to that

[FrancesHinden]

I'm with the 3NT-what's-the-problem people.
This is exactly what 3NT shows.

[kenrexford]

Why on earth try to figure out what hand partner holds and then make the call that fits his hand? Is it not much easier to look at your own hand, make the call that fits your hand, and then allow partner, who sees his hand, to assess what he should do in that context?

[Joe de Balliol]

I hate going with the majority. But 3N, wtp.

J

[luis]

I'm not going to bid 3NT!!

If I need a black suit finesse it will be on, so I only need some moderate values for a slam and pd just jumped to 3h! I'm going to try 4NT over 3♥.

[mike777]

3nt As usual giving up on slam after a one level opening bid in first seat by an opp.

[mikeh]

luis, on Apr 6 2006, 03:16 PM, said:

I'm not going to bid 3NT!!

If I need a black suit finesse it will be on, so I only need some moderate values for a slam and pd just jumped to 3h! I'm going to try 4NT over 3♥.

What is 4N, Luis? Natural? If so, it seems a bit of an overbid, given that partner will not have a hand on which he expected to make game opposite a 1=4=4=4 12 or 13 count (he should assume that you hold that kind of hand for you double and bid accordingly: 3♥ is not remotely forcing)

If it is keycard, your ♥ suit may prove a trifle inadequate to an 11 or 12 trick cpntract... after all, he would, should jump with xx K10xxx AQxx xx.. surely noone bids 2♥ with that?

But, more to the point: do you trust partner or not? If 3N describes your hand, as most say it does, why are you taking charge rather than trusting partner?

[luis]

mikeh, on Apr 6 2006, 09:07 PM, said:

luis, on Apr 6 2006, 03:16 PM, said:

I'm not going to bid 3NT!!

If I need a black suit finesse it will be on, so I only need some moderate values for a slam and pd just jumped to 3h! I'm going to try 4NT over 3♥.

What is 4N, Luis? Natural? If so, it seems a bit of an overbid, given that partner will not have a hand on which he expected to make game opposite a 1=4=4=4 12 or 13 count (he should assume that you hold that kind of hand for you double and bid accordingly: 3♥ is not remotely forcing)

If it is keycard, your ♥ suit may prove a trifle inadequate to an 11 or 12 trick cpntract... after all, he would, should jump with xx K10xxx AQxx xx.. surely noone bids 2♥ with that?

But, more to the point: do you trust partner or not? If 3N describes your hand, as most say it does, why are you taking charge rather than trusting partner?

4NT is RKCB in hearts of course.
I don't think 3NT shows this hand. Is pd expected to bid on over 3NT? I don't think so, he already said what he has with 3♥. So 3NT is a hand that wants to play 3NT and I think it's an undervaluation of this hand.


Luis

[MickyB]

Reminds me of a hand in MSC. I forget the exact details, but one hand doubled, the other showed invitational values, and the doubler bid a new suit. Much of the panel considered it obvious that the doubler had a hand too strong to overcall initially, but the Director felt he was showing a 5431 15 count with 3 card support.

[Salokin]

Partners 3♥ shows ~8-10 with 4♥ sometimes 5♥.
and is not forcing!

I my opinion 3NT now showed 19-21 HCP
and a good S stop and no 4H...
... just what i have.

Some have the meaning that a 3NT now is just a scrab to
NT, telling partner that my double was no double and now i want to play
3NT as he showed some live. there is no way to do this.
If you have a 3crd♥ Double then you have to live with this.

Other methods do not work!
you have to limit your responses over a double
(0-7 no jump, 8-10 jump, 11+Q-bid)
and so you need a little disciplin in doubling.

Salokin

[whereagles]

mike777, on Apr 6 2006, 08:49 PM, said:

3nt As usual giving up on slam after a one level opening bid in first seat by an opp.

In my experience, I can only remember ONE counter-example to this rule

Oh.. and in that case opener had 9 hcp

[hrothgar]

For anyone interested, here are the complete hands.
Needless to say, 3N rolled home pretty easily.

Scoring: IMP

---

I had a couple reasons for posting this hand:

1. I wanted to see whether anyone was able to post a convincing alternative to our auction

(1♠ - X - (P) - 3♥
(P) - 3NT - All pass

2. Its unclear to me whether this slam is necessarily biddable. If you reach slam, will you be able to stop short if East holds

♠ 98
♥ K875
♦ AQJ3
♣ 876

For example, Luis advocated an immediate jump to 4NT as RKCB in Hearts. I'll be curious to see what he recommends after partner's 5♥...

[Free]

3NT showing 18-20 balanced. Now partner knows where the strength and the HCP's are, so HE knows all finesses work, and HE can start the slam try...

[whereagles]

Free, on Apr 7 2006, 02:50 PM, said:

Now partner knows where the strength and the HCP's are, so HE knows all finesses work, and HE can start the slam try...

It is YOU who is looking at two tenaces. YOU are the one who knows these finesses are working!

Besides, what's this nonsense of putting the onus of bidding a 29 hcp slam (without shortnesses!) on a pard who cannot possibly have extras? From pard's point of view, this might very well have an ace out and hang on a doomed diamond finesse.

[pclayton]

4N should be quantitative. Pard's subsequent 5♥ is a signoff over 4N.

Easy enough on paper anyway.

Whether or not the subject hand is worth an upgrade is a matter of opinion I guess. And whether or not the East hand is worth a pull of 3N with the nice 10 count is another matter altogether.