[Echognome]

I believe the recommended bidding on that hand involved passing and protecting with 1NT. I also believe that they found 5♦ at the table. Nice.

[FrancesHinden]

The cue bid doesn't work very well on these hands either, you still tend to end in 3NT because you have loads of HCP and a heart stop. That's why it's set as a problem!

However, in general I prefer to cue on a 4252 11-count or so, because it gives us the chance of playing in diamonds. Particularly so when I am a passed hand, and we can bid P (1H) x 2H 3C 3D P. But even as a non-passed hand, with

Kxxx
xx
KJxxx
Kx

I'd be prepared to end up in 4D in my fit than in 2S in my non-fit, although this is a minimum hand for it - any less and I agree with 2S.

Also, I fully agree the Kx in hearts makes this route less attractive. Which is why this hand is a problem....

[joshs]

FrancesHinden, on Feb 28 2006, 11:34 AM, said:

This hand is remarkably similar to one of the hands in the latest English Bridge magazine, where you have to bid

AQ
10xx
Jxxx
AKJx

opposite

J10xx
Kx
KQxxx
Q10

after you pass (sound opening) and LHO opens 1H.

give partner a 3244 (a more typical double) and you still want to play in 5D.

Thats a tricky hand: After P-1H-P-P-x-
with the opps silent:
2H-2S-3C-3D-?
Do you raise or bid 3H? I think with no help in hearts (jxx is the borderline case) you need to raise to 4D which partner would happily bid 5 over.

[mike777]

joshs, on Feb 28 2006, 01:46 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Feb 28 2006, 11:34 AM, said:

This hand is remarkably similar to one of the hands in the latest English Bridge magazine, where you have to bid

AQ
10xx
Jxxx
AKJx

opposite

J10xx
Kx
KQxxx
Q10

after you pass (sound opening) and LHO opens 1H.

give partner a 3244 (a more typical double) and you still want to play in 5D.

Thats a tricky hand: After P-1H-P-P-x-
with the opps silent:
2H-2S-3C-3D-?
Do you raise or bid 3H? I think with no help in hearts (jxx is the borderline case) you need to raise to 4D which partner would happily bid 5 over.

Is 3clubs really forcing here?

I am a passed hand and I have x'd and bid 2s....it seems I can pass 3clubs now?
Is 2h showing a 2 suited minor suit hand or one suited in clubs....that could not overcall 1h?

This is a very tough hand I can see at the table a lot of room for misunderstandings. Well done to those that get to 5D.

[joshs]

mike777, on Feb 28 2006, 02:03 PM, said:

joshs, on Feb 28 2006, 01:46 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Feb 28 2006, 11:34 AM, said:

This hand is remarkably similar to one of the hands in the latest English Bridge magazine, where you have to bid

AQ
10xx
Jxxx
AKJx

opposite

J10xx
Kx
KQxxx
Q10

after you pass (sound opening) and LHO opens 1H.

give partner a 3244 (a more typical double) and you still want to play in 5D.

Thats a tricky hand: After P-1H-P-P-x-
with the opps silent:
2H-2S-3C-3D-?
Do you raise or bid 3H? I think with no help in hearts (jxx is the borderline case) you need to raise to 4D which partner would happily bid 5 over.

Is 3clubs really forcing here?

I am a passed hand and I have x'd and bid 2s....it seems I can pass 3clubs now?
Is 2h showing a 2 suited minor suit hand or one suited in clubs....that could not overcall 1h?

This is a very tough hand I can see at the table a lot of room for misunderstandings. Well done to those that get to 5D.

You are not a passed hand. Someone who passes before the opps have bid is a passed hand. Someone who passes after the opps bid can still have as much as a 17 count, and is not considered a passed hand.

[joshs]

joshs, on Feb 28 2006, 02:41 PM, said:

mike777, on Feb 28 2006, 02:03 PM, said:

joshs, on Feb 28 2006, 01:46 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Feb 28 2006, 11:34 AM, said:

This hand is remarkably similar to one of the hands in the latest English Bridge magazine, where you have to bid

AQ
10xx
Jxxx
AKJx

opposite

J10xx
Kx
KQxxx
Q10

after you pass (sound opening) and LHO opens 1H.

give partner a 3244 (a more typical double) and you still want to play in 5D.

Thats a tricky hand: After P-1H-P-P-x-
with the opps silent:
2H-2S-3C-3D-?
Do you raise or bid 3H? I think with no help in hearts (jxx is the borderline case) you need to raise to 4D which partner would happily bid 5 over.

Is 3clubs really forcing here?

I am a passed hand and I have x'd and bid 2s....it seems I can pass 3clubs now?
Is 2h showing a 2 suited minor suit hand or one suited in clubs....that could not overcall 1h?

This is a very tough hand I can see at the table a lot of room for misunderstandings. Well done to those that get to 5D.

You are not a passed hand. Someone who passes before the opps have bid is a passed hand. Someone who passes after the opps bid can still have as much as a 17 count, and is not considered a passed hand.

Sorry, I meant the cue-bidder is not a passed hand. His cue-bid sets up a force until suit agreement. Since you are a passed hand, he can pass any of your suit bids, but his new suits are forcing after a cue-bid.
e.g.
2H was forcing (Qbid)
2S was not (since you are a passed hand, but its pretty wierd to pass this)
3C was forcing (new suit by "unlimited hand" after a cue-bid occured)
3D was not (since you are a passed hand)
4D was not (suit agreement)

[mike777]

yes I am saying south is a passed hand and might pass 3 clubs?
I fail to see how North is unlimited? They did pass over 1H. That must limit the hand in someway?

If you agree that North is limited in someway, then the issue is 3c forcing? Perhaps it still is but I can see room for misunderstanding at the table under pressure.

I would say no way is 3clubs forcing but willing to listen and learn. .

[joshs]

mike777, on Feb 28 2006, 02:49 PM, said:

yes I am saying south is a passed hand and might pass 3 clubs?
I fail to see how North is unlimited? They did pass over 1H. That must limit the hand in someway?

If you agree that North is limited in someway, then the issue is 3c forcing? Perhaps it still is but I can see room for misunderstanding at the table under pressure.

No I don't agree that north is limited in any way. Yes he probably doesn't have a 22 count. But thats not the point. In the standard auction:
1H-1S-3C 3C is unconditionally forcing depite the fact that that player was "limited by not opening 2C". It was easier in the initial days of approach forcing to explain the concept.

Back then: opposite a player who has shown values, new suits by an unpassed hand were forcing.

This got watered down with the following exceptions:
1X-1Y-1Z (limited by failure to jump, hence non-forcing)
1X-1Y-2lower (limited by failure to jump or reverse, hence non-forcing)

now there is the equal level conversion auctions which :
some play:
1S-x-1N-2C(freebid, hence some values)-P-2D or
1S-x-P-3C(Value Showing)-P-3D as non-forcing
but this is by conventional agreement. In standard these are forcing bids.

So despite the fact that you think you have shown your hand, partner needs to be able to set up forcing auctions, so he can show his hand whenever he is not limited to values that couldn't possibly make game oppiste your hand. When he cue-bids here he says "I know you are a passed hand, but I still think we have game, lets try to find the correct spot"

[han]

I would certainly not double with the hand that Frances gave. A balanced fifteen count is not enough for me to double with a doubleton in the only unbid major.

As for the hand in question, 2S seems perfect. Forcing to game (2H followed by 4S!) seems very optimistic.

[joshs]

Bidding problem:

You Hold: AKxx x AKxx AJxx

Equal Red. RHO opens 1S What do you bid???

I am sure in a MSC club you will have votes for:
a. x
b. 3N
c. 2D
d. 2C
e. Pass

Personally, assuming you belong in game, i think you will rarely ever get to the correct game after x.

[joshs]

joshs, on Feb 28 2006, 03:24 PM, said:

Bidding problem:

You Hold: AKxx x AKxx AJxx

Equal Red. RHO opens 1S What do you bid???

I am sure in a MSC club you will have votes for:
a. x
b. 3N
c. 2D
d. 2C
e. Pass

Personally, assuming you belong in game, i think you will rarely ever get to the correct game after x.

And 1N, I left out 1N...

[hrothgar]

joshs, on Feb 28 2006, 11:24 PM, said:

Bidding problem:

You Hold:  AKxx x AKxx AJxx

Equal Red. RHO opens 1S What do you bid???

I am sure in a MSC club you will have votes for:
a. x
b. 3N
c. 2D
d. 2C
e. Pass

Personally, assuming you belong in game, i think you will rarely ever get to the correct game after x.

Even so, I'm gonna start with double and hope that i don't hear 3♥

[mike777]

hrothgar, on Feb 28 2006, 03:36 PM, said:

joshs, on Feb 28 2006, 11:24 PM, said:

Bidding problem:

You Hold:  AKxx x AKxx AJxx

Equal Red. RHO opens 1S What do you bid???

I am sure in a MSC club you will have votes for:
a. x
b. 3N
c. 2D
d. 2C
e. Pass

Personally, assuming you belong in game, i think you will rarely ever get to the correct game after x.

Even so, I'm gonna start with double and hope that i don't here 3♥

1NT

[joshs]

Personally, Pass and 1N seem close for me with that hand. I really hate passing over a 1 level opening with 18+ points. Even though you hope that by passing you will be able to describe your hand better by passing first, you will only rarely get a second chance to bid. Having said that, when the auction goes all pass you really might be better off defending 1S (at all red) then playing in whatever contract you reached by bidding. With a weaker hand like AKxx x Axxx AJxx I think pass is clear!

I know one top player (Hi Stevie), who runs a bidding contest, who gives 0 to any takeout x with a stiff in an unbid major. He is a bit extreme for most of us, but x then NT with a stiff in an unbid major is really begging to end up in a 5-1 fit....

[benlessard]

Its a passed hand cue-bid so for me its not GF.

It show more then 1 strain of contract like 4M-6m or both M or weak 4M but stoppers in the opponent suit and at least value to go to the 3level.

Not sure the hand is good enough for it but its certainly better to cue-bid 2♥ then to bid 1s or 2d. Wich show no values.


so 2♥ followed by 3♠ make sense.

A direct 2♠ seems like the proper value bid.


Ben

[civill]

2♠