[ArcLight]

1♠-X-2♠- pass
pass-X-pass-3♥

(I forgot the bidding, it was either
3♠-X-pass-??? OR

pass-pass-X-pass
3♠-X-pass-???

---

3 Spades doubled made.

What do you do when you have a monster with 24 HCP and pard is quiet?
Bad luck?

[kenberg]

The quick answer is I don't know what should be done. However, looking at your hand, hearing an opening bid on your right, hearing a raise on your left, It seems as if partner has 1 more point than you might expect. So I think the basic answer, after the bidding goes 1S-X-2S-P-P is that you count your tricks assuming partner has nothing, and see where you would like to be. With this in mind, a 2NT call, rather than a second double, seems to have some merit. I can imagine 2NT going down, but there is probably some sort of play for it (should make with the cards as they are) and with all those points I would feel the need to do something. The given auction, 1S-X-2S-P-P-X doesn't fully show your strength and I can imagine the urge to act again later. If you bid 2NT, surely then you can leave any further action to your partner.

In the auctions you offer as possible but not fully remembered, I find the one with your partner doubling when 3S rolls around to him very unlikely. At that point his partner, you, has doubled twice. But so what? I can't imagine where he thinks he is getting five tricks on defense or ten tricks on offense.

So of course this sounds now easier than it is, since we are looking at all four hands. Still, partner rates to be broke, there rates to be some shape in the opponents hands (unless they like to bid on air) and so 2NT sounds like a reasonable choice for your second call. It's interesting to speculate on whether a partnership knows whether, after the 2NT, a call of 3D would be diamonds or a transfer.

Actually the 2H bid after 2S is also a little odd.

Ken

[Elianna]

kenberg, on Feb 10 2006, 10:33 AM, said:

In the auctions you offer as possible but not fully remembered, I find the one with your partner doubling when 3S rolls around to him very unlikely. At that point his partner, you, has doubled twice. But so what? I can't imagine where he thinks he is getting five tricks on defense or ten tricks on offense.

Maybe the post was edited after your replied, but the weak hand didn't double anything.

[Winstonm]

ArcLight, on Feb 10 2006, 01:07 PM, said:

Dealer: West Vul: None Scoring: Unknown

♠ AQ ♥ AQ75 ♦ AKQ5 ♣ K62 ♠ KT876 ♥   ♦ J3 ♣ AQT743 ♠ J543 ♥ KT986 ♦ 864 ♣ 5 ♠ 92 ♥ J432 ♦ T972 ♣ J98

1♠-X-2♠- pass pass-X-pass-3♥ (I forgot the bidding, it was either 3♠-X-pass-???  OR pass-pass-X-pass 3♠-X-pass-???

3 Spades doubled made.

What do you do when you have a monster with 24 HCP and pard is quiet?
Bad luck?

I don't see how 3S made.

[Kalvan14]

OTOH, I can see very well how 3NT can be made by N (don't tell me that E leads a club)

[adhoc3]

1S----x----2s-----pass
pass--2NT

is it a little bit better than x twice?

[kenberg]

Elianna, on Feb 10 2006, 08:46 PM, said:

kenberg, on Feb 10 2006, 10:33 AM, said:

In the auctions you offer as possible but not fully remembered, I find the one with your partner doubling when 3S rolls around to him very unlikely. At that point his partner, you, has doubled twice. But so what? I can't imagine where he thinks he is getting five tricks on defense or ten tricks on offense.

Maybe the post was edited after your replied, but the weak hand didn't double anything.

Oops. Right. I thought the second of the two possible continuations had the weak hand doubling the 3S bid. Not so.

Anyway, there are some tough decisions here with opportunity for confusion:

1S X-2S-P
P- 2NT

I suppose that could show extra values but not such great extra values, and a 2-3-4-4 shape. With a good hand partner will make his initial double with three hearts but at the second round he may want to force a bid from partner but advise him he only has three hearts. I simply don't know if there is a default agreement here among advanced players. I believe that my current f2f partner would use 2NT to show the sort of truly big hand given here, but I can't imagine this would come up often, while the other meaning would be somewhat frequent. Also, even if 2NT on the second round shows a truly big hand, it might make it more difficult to reach hearts. It seems to be at least something of a fluke that the hearts rather than the diamonds are split so badly although there are grounds for suspicion there is some extra shape somewhare to justify the opponents bidding (I assume many of us would have bid 3S, third hand, over the first double, but that's another story). This hand will do well in NT, possibly making three, but of course one hand is not proof of much.

My current partner and I have decided it is truly time to make some decisions as to what means what. One of the items on my list is "When is NT really NT?". It seems this question is important on this hand, and I would be glad to hear opinions.


Ken

[Kalvan14]

How many times in your life are you anticipating having to bid a balanced 24 points after an oppo's opening bid? Is it worth to go and analyse it in details? Frankly, I am sure that it I had got this hand bidding would have been: (1♠)-X-(2♠)-P-(P)-3NT. No need for agreements or further investigations: there are a lot of hands where even a yarborough is useful (actually, every time partner has 5 cards in a red suit), and I'm close to 8 tricks by power on my own. Enough, and more than enough.

[Winstonm]

Kalvan14, on Feb 11 2006, 07:41 PM, said:

How many times in your life are you anticipating having to bid a balanced 24 points after an oppo's opening bid? Is it worth to go and analyse it in details? Frankly, I am sure that it I had got this hand bidding would have been: (1♠)-X-(2♠)-P-(P)-3NT. No need for agreements or further investigations: there are a lot of hands where even a yarborough is useful (actually, every time partner has 5 cards in a red suit), and I'm close to 8 tricks by power on my own. Enough, and more than enough.

I agree. Sometimes you just have to take the bull by the tail and face the situation.

Winston