[DrTodd13]

I've written a cool utility to analyze over 2000 Dejeuner hands. When we played 1N natural, non-forcing over 1♠, we never had a case where we passed 1N. That is why we feel ok giving it up. We very often ended up in 2♦. (45)22 is a problem and this is why we'd like to be able to play 2♦. If anyone is interested in our extensive Dejeuner analysis let me know and I'll send you the file. We can then talk about extending this analysis tool to be more generic and possibly useful to a wider range of people.

Todd

[akhare]

DrTodd13, on Jan 31 2006, 01:52 PM, said:

After viewing this thread and some discussion, foobar and I are going to switch to the following and see how it works.  It is hard to determine this because 1♠ has such a low frequency but let's see what people think.  After 1♠ we have:

1N = relay, invite+ or weak hand with ♦ support
   2♣ = single-suited ♦ hand
      2♦ = to play
      2♥ = shape relay
   2♦ = 4♣

We went through several revisions , but thought we decided to play the natural order i.e.:

1N = relay w/ invite or weak, after which:

2♣=♦+♣ two suiter
    2♦: RELAY BREAK; to play
    2♥: Relay; resolve two suiter at 2♠+
2♦=SS ♦
    P: To play in 2♦
    2♥: Relay; Resolve ♦ SS at 2♠+

Atul

[joshs]

DrTodd13, on Jan 31 2006, 01:52 PM, said:

After viewing this thread and some discussion, foobar and I are going to switch to the following and see how it works. It is hard to determine this because 1♠ has such a low frequency but let's see what people think. After 1♠ we have:

1N = relay, invite+ or weak hand with ♦ support
   2♣ = single-suited ♦ hand
      2♦ = to play
      2♥ = shape relay
   2♦ = 4♣
   2♥ = 5+♣, high-shortness
   2♠ = 5+♣, equal-shortness
   2N+ = 5+♣, low-shortness, various shapes
2♣ = 5+♥, F1
2♦ = 5+♠, F1
2♥ = to play, probably 6♥
2♠ = to play, probably 6♠
2N = 5/5 majors invite

The idea is we don't want to jump to show single-suited ♦ hands because that leaves us poorly placed. We still want to be able to play 2♦ much of the time after a 1♠ opening and we retain that because after that 1N relay, opener's most likely bids are 2♣ or 2♦ (5♦4♣ more common than 5/5 that's why 2♦ is 4♣ instead of 2♥ which would be more symmetric but we give symmetricness up for practicality). After 2♣, 2♦ is to play. If opener responds 2♦ then responder can pass that. If opener shows 5/5 minors then now maybe you know you have a fit in 3♣ but in the worst case you may have to fall back to 3♦. We aren't that sure about the 1♠-2N sequence but it seems like this might be the trouble hand, 5/5 in both majors invite. If in practice some other invitational hand is more troublesome than 5/5 majors then we'll try to work it into 2N.

I think moscito is currently using:
1N relay, good hand
2C: 5+H
2D, worse than Hx in hearts, no strong 6 card minor
2H: Hx in hearts
3m: strong 6 card suit
2D: 5+S
2H: worse than Hx in spades, no strong 6 card minor
2S: Hx or better
2H: 5+C
etc.
2S: limit raise in either minor
2N: both minors, pre-empt
3m: to play

I have no idea what you are suppossed to bid with 4423 shape

[hrothgar]

joshs, on Feb 1 2006, 01:49 AM, said:

 

>I think moscito is currently using:

Here's the last set of notes that I have from Paul

2N = 4+ Diamonds
---3♣ = Minimum, both minors
---3♦ = Minimum, long Diamonds
---3♥ = non-minimum, Heart shortage
---3♠ = non-minimum, Spade shortage

2♠ = Game invite with 3+♣ and 3+♦
---2NT = 5+ Clubs and a maximum hand
---3♣ = Minimum hand, prefers Clubs to Diamonds
---3♦ = Minimum hand, prefers Diamonds to Clubs
---3♥ = 6+ Diamonds, short Hearts
---3♠ = 6+ Diamonds, short Spades
---3N = 6+ Diamonds, No shortage or Club shortage

2♥ = 5+ Clubs
2♦ = 5+ Spades
2♣ = 5+ Hearts
1N = relay, not necessarily strong

>I have no idea what you are suppossed to bid with 4423 shape

4423 is easy:

Bid 1NT and pass 2m

4432 is tricker... I've seen Paul bid an immediate 3♦

He argues that

1♠ - 1NT
2♣ - 2♦

should be used as a relay. Any hand that would want to bid a natural 2♦ over 2♣ should have bid 3♦ from the get go...