[Echognome]

Scoring: XIMP

P - (1♦) - 2♣ - (2♠)
?

---

Are you going to raise p's overcall?

If so, by how much?

[Gerben42]

Yes to 4♣.

[cherdano]

Yes to 3♣.

[MickyB]

3♣, 2♣ in this position and vul can be quite aggressive for most.

[Al_U_Card]

A quiet 3C will be most effective and least dangerous.

[mikeh]

3♣ is enough, primarily because I do not want partner to bid 5♣ over their game unless it is clear. Passing is out, because I do want him to bid 5♣ if it is clear, and I want to remove the easy 3♣ cue-bid from opener's arsenal.

4♣ close second, because they may well have a slam here and 3♣ leaves 4♣ available.

[pclayton]

This hand just doesn't look like a 4♣ call to me. I'm a little concerned about pard diving with intermediate hearts and diamond shortness where we have an easy beat of 4♠.

3♣ is fine with this marginal ODR.

[Blofeld]

3♣ looks about right.

Not raising seems silly.

[Echognome]

Scoring: XIMP

P - (1♦) - 2♣ - (2♠)
3♣ - (3♠) - P - (4♠)
All Pass

---

Partner tanked in the pass out seat and finally emerged with a pass. I recommended that he bid 5♣ over the 3♠ bid.

When scoring up, one pair was quite surprised.
"You didn't find the 5♣ sacrifice?"
"I'm afraid not. What was your auction?"
"P - 1♦ - 2♣ - 2♠ - 5♣"

I could only say that 5♣ never occurred to me as an option.

[han]

3♣, but I gave some serious thought to 4C. The colors are good for a sacrfice, and my clubs are great. However, my diamonds are likely good on defense and useless as dummy.

[cherdano]

I also think North should bid something over 3♠.

[Kalvan14]

3♣ is quite enough with South hand. In the end, North has to make a decision (after 4♠, not after 3♠). North has a good distribution, and adequate shortnesses; the two defensive tricks are likely not to be enough to defeat 4♠ (W has opened, E has bid a forcing 2♠, how much can be south expected to bring?). 5♣ should be 2 or 3 off, with the promised club fit.
It is not a mandatory sacrifice, IMO: S can have diamonds value, as it is, and 4♠ with the likely 9 trumps (maybe even 8) might be difficult.

[mike777]

The common problem is of course south's free raise bid of 3clubs!
Is it weak, constructive or invite?

3Clubs is by definition a free raise bid. The old definition of a free raise bid is a bid with a good constructive reason to bid.

As I detailed in another post, in modern bridge a free raise bid has almost no meaning. In today's world everyone likes to bid. In competition, everyone gets into the act and it becomes a shootout. Since all bids have no real meaning, I do not know how they can judge who "owns" the contract, and when to trust their partner.

Using "Fought the Law" if you can judge whether partners bidding shows minimum working hcp, constructive working hcp, or invite hcp you can make some logical decision.

If you could trust the bidding:
opener has 13-14 hcp
you have 11 hcp
responder has 8+ hcp
which leaves partner having at most 7 working hcp.

Using FTL
13-3-1=9 tricks in club sac.
13=total tricks
-3=combined 2 shortest suits
-1=estimated 16-18 working hcp.

[bearmum]

Yes ---to 3♣

[Kalvan14]

mike777, on Jan 28 2006, 01:55 AM, said:

The common problem is of course south's free raise bid of 3clubs!
Is it weak, constructive or invite?

3Clubs is by definition a free raise bid. The old definition of a free raise bid is a bid with a good constructive reason to bid.

As I detailed in another post, in modern bridge a free raise bid has almost no meaning. In today's world eveyone likes to bid. In competition, everyone gets into the act and it becomes a shootout. Since all bids have no real meaning, I do not know how they can judge who "owns" the contract, and when to trust their partner.

Using "Fought the Law" if you can judge whether partners bidding shows minimum working hcp, constuctive working hcp, or invite hcp you can make some logical decision.

If you could trust the bidding:
opener has 13-14 hcp
you have 11 hcp
responder has 8+ hcp
which leaves partner having at most 7 working hcp.

Using FTL
13-3-1=9 tricks in club sac.
13=total tricks
-3=combined 2 shortest suits
-1=estimated 16-18 working hcp.

It's what I have always argued: FTL methods are quite good if you can properly assess the WTP (and the SST, but this is much easier). Obviously, if you can properly assess the WTP, you do not need FTL methods.

[Free]

I'd support to 3♣, and the North hand should bid 5♣ over 3♠. Let them guess if they'll go to 5♠ or dbl immediatly! You know you'll sacrifice later on, you know they'll probably bid 4♠ anyway, so a pre-sacrifice is in order imo.