[inquiry]

Scoring: IMP

BPO-007B
West North East South
(4♠) - 5♦ - (PASS) -   ?

Can there be a right answer to this tough one?

---

This hand is now open for discussion.

[HeartA]

Believe it or not, I chose 6♦, with controls on every side suit.

[hrothgar]

BPO-007B: 5H

This should not be an attempt to rescue partner, but forward going

[Dwingo]

hrothgar, on Jan 26 2006, 08:40 AM, said:

BPO-007B: 5H

This should not be an attempt to rescue partner, but forward going

Will partner be on the same wavelength?

I uttered a small prayer and bid 6♦

[han]

Wow, 2 out of 3 votes for 6D, amazing!

I also bid 5H, but although I agree that this is a constructive bid, I don't think that it necessarily shows a hand as good as this one. If partner really has the hand plus diamond suit that the 6♦ bidders are playing her for then she will likely bid 6♦ herself.

[Double !]

thought about doing something other than passing, but chose Pass and hope I get a plus score. I also thought about doing something bad to lho for opening 4S, but decided against it.

I hate these type of hands because anything you might do could win. Any further action by me could turn a plus into a minus and vice versa. I am hoping that my controls will cover any losers that P might have. If it makes 6 or 7, well, good 4S bid, opps. Now here is one hand where I wish I had Luis' special sun glasses!!!!

DHL

[Echognome]

I bid 6♦ too, but I'm having some serious doubts. I'm thinking now of passing and hoping. It's an awkward call regardless.

[han]

Double !, on Jan 25 2006, 11:12 PM, said:

Now here is one hand where I wish I had Luis' special sun glasses!!!!

DHL

lol, I agree!

[P_Marlowe]

Pass, ... and I was thinking wtp?.

Marlowe

[FrancesHinden]

To some extent this is clearly a complete guess. But there's certainly a problem. The following are all perfectly sound 5D overcalls:

xx
AQx
AKQJxxx
x

Probably 7H. Now take away the DJ and decide where to play...

x
Ax
AKQJ10xxx
xx

7NT

Kx
x
KQJ109xx
KQx

5D

xx
Axx
AQJ109xxx
-

probably prefer to play 5D, but partner will raise 5H.

x
x
AKJ109xx
KQxx

6C

[badderzboy]

Oh well,

I have a feeling its a Stevie 0 pts here but but I bid 5♠ to suggest a slam somewhere but I must be showing shortage in ♦s here and the other suits...?

Steve

[Walddk]

FrancesHinden, on Jan 26 2006, 09:25 AM, said:

To some extent this is clearly a complete guess. But there's certainly a problem. The following are all perfectly sound 5D overcalls:

xx
AQx
AKQJxxx
x

Probably 7H. Now take away the DJ and decide where to play...

x
Ax
AKQJ10xxx
xx

7NT

Kx
x
KQJ109xx
KQx

5D

xx
Axx
AQJ109xxx
-

probably prefer to play 5D, but partner will raise 5H.

x
x
AKJ109xx
KQxx

6C

Frances has summed it up; it's a complete guess. 5♦ might be high enough, and on other perfectly normal 5♦ overcalls, we have a small or grand slam. This problem falls into the category of guessing rather than of judgement.

Roland

[HeartA]

Walddk, on Jan 26 2006, 04:11 AM, said:

Frances has summed it up; it's a complete guess. 5♦ might be high enough, and on other perfectly normal 5♦ overcalls, we have a small or grand slam. This problem falls into the category of guessing rather than of judgement.

Roland

On average (or probability), 6D is the right choice.

[mr1303]

6D is good if partner has excellent trumps. However, why should he have a semi-solid 7 card suit for bidding 5D here? He's bidding under pressure, and we should cut him some slack.

I chose 5H, which is hopefully at least mildly forward going.

[FrancesHinden]

HeartA, on Jan 26 2006, 10:40 AM, said:

Walddk, on Jan 26 2006, 04:11 AM, said:

Frances has summed it up; it's a complete guess. 5♦ might be high enough, and on other perfectly normal 5♦ overcalls, we have a small or grand slam. This problem falls into the category of guessing rather than of judgement.

Roland

On average (or probability), 6D is the right choice.

If you decide not to pass IMO 5♥ is a superior call to 6♦, as long as partner understands what you mean.

If it's clear that it means "I have a load of high cards, and I think we should be in slam, but I'm bidding 5H on the off-chance we have a heart fit", then partner can still bid 6D over it, and I don't think you will ever play in 6H when 6D is right, but you will play in hearts sometimes when it's right.

So while I agree that the most likely slam is 6D, I don't agree that bidding 6D is the correct call, even given you don't pass.

What I would like to bid is 5NT, with the meaning "I want to play a slam somewhere, please suggest a suit" as this brings clubs into the picture. However, I think my partner would interpret 5NT as "grand slam force", in this context meaning "I will play 7D if your suit is really solid, otherwise 6D".

[Gerben42]

I pass. I expect to lose a ♦ and one other trick. Also it's not clear that we can make a slam in some other denomination.

As they say here: "Plusschreiben und gewinnen".

[Walddk]

FrancesHinden, on Jan 26 2006, 11:29 AM, said:

What I would like to bid is 5NT, with the meaning "I want to play a slam somewhere, please suggest a suit" as this brings clubs into the picture.  However, I think my partner would interpret 5NT as "grand slam force", in this context meaning "I will play 7D if your suit is really solid, otherwise 6D".

I agree that 5NT most likely will be interpreted as a grand slam invite for diamonds. If we decide to bid over 5♦, what about 5♠ as a 2-suiter then? That way we get all possible slams into the frame. Just a thought and nothing I have an agreement about at this point.

Roland

[Blofeld]

I bid 5♥, fully understanding that some of the time it will get us too high.

[Free]

I pass, it's a misfit. However we have some very useful values, so it could be wrong...

[hrothgar]

Walddk, on Jan 26 2006, 01:40 PM, said:

I agree that 5NT most likely will be interpreted as a grand slam invite for diamonds. If we decide to bid over 5♦, what about 5♠ as a 2-suiter then? That way we get all possible slams into the frame. Just a thought and nothing I have an agreement about at this point.

And now we get to the crux of the matter:

In an ideal world we would like to be able to distinquish the following hand types:

1. Hands with Diamond tolerance that want to ask or show controls
2. Hands lacking Diamond tolerance that would like to investigate the best level/strain
3. Hands with good suits of their own that want investigate controls

We have a number of bids available

5♥
5♠
5N
6♣

And need some meta agreement that matches hand types to bids. We also need to worry about bididng space.

I suspect that some kind of Lebensohl/Rubensohl type treatment would work well here. We could use 5♥ as a marionette to 5♠ and differentiate between "direct" and "indirect" sequences. Direct sequences (an immediate) 5♠ or 5NT bid would assume Diamonds as trump. Indirect sequences would be directed at exploring other strains.

It would be interesting to see if any established pairs use similar methods