[Echognome]

Scoring: IMP

(1NT)* - P - (2♣) - P
(2♥) - P - (3♥) - X
(P) - ?

---

*12-14
2♣ stayman
3♥ inv to game

What does partner have for this double?

What is your call now?

[Free]

Since it's imps, I don't think that's penalty I'll bid 4♣ and pass if opps continue to 4♥.

[Chamaco]

what would a double of 2C stayman have meant ?

Some people play that a double of stayman is a sort of power double, others that it is lead directing for clubs.

IMO this influences the meaning of this second round double.

[Echognome]

It's a pickup partnership. Although you've played together several times before, you don't have detailed agreements about what a double of 2♣ would have been. I would assume by default it shows either a penalty double of 1NT or a lead director in clubs.

If it helps, your partner is a junior English player.

[ArcLight]

It looks like a Lightner double to me, asking for an unusual lead, usually the lead of dummys bid suit. Usually one hopes for a ruff.

Isn't the standard meaning of a double of Stayman a request for a Club lead?

What bothers me is Dummy has really bid one or both majors, not clubs.
The NT bidder presumably has 2-4 clubs, we have 5, so Dummy would need 4+ Clubs for pard to have a void.
I don't think this is likely as pard wont have a void.
Clubs are still an attractive suit to lead.

The other explanation is pard wants a lead of the other major, Spades.
Whats he holding AKQ?
How can he have that, and I have 11 HCP (20), Declarer has 12-14 and the Dummy bidding 3 hearts implies some kind of raise, unless its preemptive?
What does dummy have 5-4 or better, great shape, with few HCP?
How are they going to get their tricks, outside of Dummy ruffing?
Diamonds? I don't think they will get too many there maybe 3.

Without the double I would have lead Clubs.
Now I'm confused.
Do I lead spades or trumps to cut down on ruffs?
If I lead a trump and am wrong I may cost us a trump trick (the Q).
Since its a pick up pard, I'll lead a trump, I may be wrong, but I may be right.


------------------------------

The idea of a delayed takeout double didn't occur to me.
Isn't it a bit dangerous to force pard to the 3 or 4 level when the opponents have the majority of HCP and you can't tell for sure what pard has?

In this case 4 Clubs maybe ok, opposite a heart void.
This fits nicely, with perhaps 3 losers, maybe 4.
Kxxx
-
Qxxxx
Axxx


But can pard really have this?
What did the Stayman bid mean, only Hearts, or Hearts and Spades?
For pard to be void in hearts and declarer to have 4 and you have 3 means Dummy has 6 hearts.

Is that likely?
If he has 5-5 or better he can transfer to one and then bid the other.
Is Dummy 5-4? That leaves 4 cards for the minors.

I can't see pard having a heart void, he likely has 1 heart.

Also, Dummy is inviting game, shouldn't he have more than 8 HCP for that? Given a 5-4-(2-2)/(3-1) distribution? Or maybe he has 5-4-4-0? Maybe the 3 heart rais eis preemptive.

I chalk this one up to the great unknowns of pick up pards.

Can this be a 2 suited takeout?
I guess pard can't have enough for a penalty double.

Bid 4 clubs and expect it to be close.

[FrancesHinden]

I don't usually believe in looking at my hand before deciding what what partner's bid means (because that implies you believe the opponents...) but this time I'm going to.

There are two possible sane meanings for the double.
i) Penalties
ii) Very distributional take-out

I'm going with (ii). This is also consistent with my general agreement that "double of a suit at the first opportunity to double that suit is take-out". It's also consistent with a pass over 2C, whether he thought that would be clubs or strong balanced, because he doesn't have either.

My heart holding is odd, because it's not consistent with either meaning. I reckon the 3H bidder has a fairly weak hand with long hearts, say, 4621 or 4513 or even 3541 and has bid 3H semi-pre-emptively, happy anyway if partner raises. Maybe opener also has 5 hearts, and he's not bid 4H because he knows we don't know what the double means...

As he's come into alive auction, he must have a lot of playing strength. Being a junior makes it easier, because he'll need less playing strength to act! How about

Kxxx
-
Qxxxx
Axxx

Anyway, I bid 4C. Not enough for 5C.

[Winstonm]

If you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be correct. Sherlock Holmes.

Partner cannot have clubs - he would have doubled 2C.
Partner cannot have good, long hearts/spades. He would have bid them.
Partner cannot have good, long diamonds. He would have bid them.
Partner cannot hold minors. He would have bid 2N.

What is left? A hand that could not be shown over 2C yet is strong enough to come into an invitational auction at the 3-level? The only thing that makes sense is a t.o. double for hearts with a hand nearly as good as opener's but this seems inconsistent with my holding and the bidding unless it is 3rd seat who is messing around.

The other thing left then is a Michael's hand - partner had hoped to show both suits in this auction or perhaps not to bid at all, and when the opponents found their fit its seemed safer to enter the fray. I would guess partner to hold something like:

KQJxx, x, AJ10xxx, x

Winston

[Echognome]

I added the poll to collect some answers.

The answers certainly are interesting in regards to partner's hand.

[han]

Given the circumstances (knowledge about partner) I bid 4C. If I thought that my partner had a sound mind then I would bid 5C.

[MickyB]

Lol, cheers Han

[DrTodd13]

I agree with Winston. I guess partner has passed initially waiting to see how strong RHO is. Now that he knows he doesn't have a rock crusher, he's willing to risk showing his two-suited hand. He doesn't have clubs because he didn't double so he must have spades and diamonds. So, I'll bid 4D.

[han]

MickyB, on Jan 20 2006, 01:11 PM, said:

Lol, cheers Han 

Were you the doubler Mike?? In that case I bid 4C and double myself.

[mike777]

"The other thing left then is a Michael's hand - partner had hoped to show both suits in this auction or perhaps not to bid at all, and when the opponents found their fit its seemed safer to enter the fray. I would guess partner to hold something like:

KQJxx, x, AJ10xxx, x

Winston"



Ugg why pass and come in so late in the auction with that. Why make bidding so difficult rather than just simply bidding your hand.

Strongly prefer 2D over 2clubs and will bid spades next.

[Winstonm]

mike777, on Jan 20 2006, 02:33 PM, said:

"The other thing left then is a Michael's hand - partner had hoped to show both suits in this auction or perhaps not to bid at all, and when the opponents found their fit its seemed safer to enter the fray. I would guess partner to hold something like:

KQJxx, x, AJ10xxx, x

Winston"



Ugg why pass and come in so late in the auction with that. Why make bidding so difficult rather than just simply bidding your hand.

Strongly prefer 2D over 2clubs and will bid spades next.

I didn't say partner bid well...only what he could not hold.

Now, if it were possible for responder to be kidding around on xx, xxxxxx, xx, xxx then that increases the likelihood of partner holding AKxx, x, AKxx, Jxxx or the like. Also, it might be helpful to know the agreements, as Justin pointed out - is double clubs or takeout 3-suiter?

And lastly, I didn't say it - it was Sir Arthur Doyle who said it.

Winston

[Kalvan14]

If pard had a good 5-5, or better, it would make no sense to pass first, and then come back with a double over a game invitation. A good 3-suiter (singleton or chicane in hearts) makes much more sense. 5♣ for me too.

[HeartA]

Kalvan14, on Jan 21 2006, 12:50 AM, said:

If pard had a good 5-5, or better, it would make no sense to pass first, and then come back with a double over a game invitation. A good 3-suiter (singleton or chicane in hearts) makes much more sense. 5♣ for me too.

agree.

[Rebound]

FWIW I am also of the opinion partner shows a spade-diamond 2-suiter with this double for the same reasons Winston has given but I am a bit more open to partner having less strength although I can understand this may be a minority view.

[whereagles]

Why pard passed 1st round I don't know, but some people have different ways to bid. In this case I'd take it pard wants me to take-out, so I'll bid 4♣ here.